Model 3 + Snow Exposure = Frustration

[ngogas]

Tesla winter flaws. I hope they will design the charge ports and other parts with some heating elements to help alleviate the frozen issues.

 

[Leeclanual]

It may have been a problem with BMW years ago, but it is not on the current BMWs with frameless windows, which in fact operate the same way as the Tesla -- dropping down a fraction of an inch when operating the door handle. Maybe someone at Tesla should tear-down the BMW window and copy what they have done. For those of us who have been frozen out of our Teslas, it is incredibly frustrating. And while I appreciate all the suggested silicon sprays, etc, they simply do not solve the problem.

I had a Porsche Boxster with the same setup... it also froze up in the winter...

 

[Xenoilphobe]

What?

I don't know who copied who...or why that would matter in this discussion.

Sorry quoted the wrong thread...
des16 said: ↑
It may have been a problem with BMW years ago, but it is not on the current BMWs with frameless windows, which in fact operate the same way as the Tesla -- dropping down a fraction of an inch when operating the door handle. Maybe someone at Tesla should tear-down the BMW window and copy what they have done. For those of us who have been frozen out of our Teslas, it is incredibly frustrating. And while I appreciate all the suggested silicon sprays, etc, they simply do not solve the problem.

 

[voip-ninja]

You're not unlucky, you're just living the reality of the TM3 in proper winter. Sorry you've got such a backlash - I'm further north in Ottawa (-21C right now) and living these issues most days. Some are definitely unique to the Model 3 but lots of people on here and elsewhere get VERY defensive about any winter issues with the car and assume other people are morons. Sad but true. I suggest posting in the Canada forum - more people are familiar with the issues and we're more polite. ;-)

The issues I deal with on a regular basis, as backup for what you're experiencing:

1. Charge port - any moisture getting into the charge port causes havoc and it happens easily - freeze-thaw, road spray or carwash:
   • I was one of the early people stranded when my (garaged overnight) TM3 wouldn't let me insert the cable until I unfroze it with a hairdryer from inside; then wouldn't let me remove the charge cable the next morning - had to take my wifes car and call Tesla, hence...
   • The "Ranger Unfreeze" solution that I still use to this day when the charge port locks up is heat on HI for 2 hours with rear seats down. Please don't try to tell me this is normal. I'll deal with it, I knew I was getting a v1 product, but it is, without doubt, a design flaw. I guarantee the charge port lock will be redesigned so moisture can't get in and freeze in a way that causes the mechanism to jam.
   • The major ongoing implication of this issue is I don't wash it a lot - that may seem minor to some people but here, at this time of year, large parts of the car are crusted with salt so it's a necessity to wash it sometimes. With any other car I'd be washing once a week or so; I only wash the TM3 when I know I'll have time to deal with the consequences.
2. Door handles - these freeze most nights in the garage (slightly warmer than outside, I guess it gets a little humid?) and definitely if the car gets any moisture near it - spray from the road, freeze-thaw results or washing. Because of the design (which I love) and tight spacing between the handle and surround, the ice jams them up. I and my family have developed a "thump" we do with the heel of our hand on the wider part of the handle which frees it. You then have to remember to push it back in manually as the ice stops the retract mechanism/spring (?) from working. If you don't the door just bounces back and you have to climb out to do it. Yes I've have frozen door handles on other cars but the design here adds extra issues and they don't go away once you free up the handle like most cars. Not the end of the world but another thing I am sure Tesla will tweak the design of.
3. Windows - this is the least of my worries and yes, a coat of silicone on the rubber solved it for me. On this one I agree that it's a common issue with an easy fix, but this is absolutely the most trivial of the winter issues.

#1 and #2 are my main pet peeves. I always knew winter would be the real test of this car and it has proved to have some issues. Luckily they're not show-stoppers but I really wish people would stop mindlessly defending the vehicle when they haven't lived these issues, been stranded by them or had to deal with them over and over again. I've driven 24,000kms since June, much of that in winter so I feel I've got a pretty solid set of experience at this stage. I can guarantee that this car was not long-term-tested in a freezing climate for everyday usability issues like these. If anyone from Tesla is reading, I volunteer to do exactly that for the Model Y!

I was going to page @Garlan Garner and @StealthP3D to this thread because I have it on good authority from both of them that these stories are bullshit and don’t happen to this car.

While frozen doors and windows happen on other model cars, frozen (charge port) gas caps don’t. The design of the Model 3 door handle also seems to be a lot more susceptible to freezing up in cold high humidity situations.

I grew up 20 minutes south of the Canadian border in New England and always dreaded those mornings we had freezing rain and car was frozen shut. Even then though I could break through the ice with some raps from a rubber mallet, get in and start the car and it would be fairly thawed out 20 minutes later.

The real mystery to me is how none of this showed up in Tesla’s winter testing they did that involved things like shooting aerial drone footage of Model 3s kicking ass on icy closed course race tracks.

Maybe they garage the cars every night and don’t realize some people have to park outdoors.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

They need to test them here --

Car Frozen Shut Near Lake Erie is Cut Loose

carry some isopropyl alochol

 

[richyrich]

I was going to page @Garlan Garner and @StealthP3D to this thread because I have it on good authority from both of them that these stories are bullshit and don’t happen to this car.

While frozen doors and windows happen on other model cars, frozen (charge port) gas caps don’t. The design of the Model 3 door handle also seems to be a lot more susceptible to freezing up in cold high humidity situations.

I grew up 20 minutes south of the Canadian border in New England and always dreaded those mornings we had freezing rain and car was frozen shut. Even then though I could break through the ice with some raps from a rubber mallet, get in and start the car and it would be fairly thawed out 20 minutes later.

The real mystery to me is how none of this showed up in Tesla’s winter testing they did that involved things like shooting aerial drone footage of Model 3s kicking ass on icy closed course race tracks.

Maybe they garage the cars every night and don’t realize some people have to park outdoors.

Just to be clear mine is garaged overnight, always, including the time it was stranded. It’s not a heated garage so still gets well below freezing on the coldest nights and anyway this is more about everyday winter conditions than one specific weather event.

Freezing rain hasn’t been a particular issue for me so far. The once or twice we’ve had it and the TM3 has been outdoors, the car just gets a coating of ice which you have to remove (e.g. slightly harder thump on the door handles) much like any other car. The TM3 winter issues are more because of moisture getting into nooks and crannies then freezing and causing some unique issues because of the charge port and door handle designs.

The right testing would have been quite easy - car wash on a freezing day or just freeze and thaw a slightly moist car a few times. These can be challenges for other cars but not in a way that makes it impossible to refuel.

As for the deniers, the same type of people also told me my immediate loss of regen when fitting winter tires was imaginary, due to bad tires/mounting or would just sort itself out when the car “learned”. An inspection of my brake pads would tell you otherwise and Tesla didn’t think so either, hence the fix (finally) in 2018.50.... Thankfully the company iteself doesn’t just deny issues when presented with feedback.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I was going to page @Garlan Garner and @StealthP3D to this thread because I have it on good authority from both of them that these stories are bullshit and don’t happen to this car.

While frozen doors and windows happen on other model cars, frozen (charge port) gas caps don’t. The design of the Model 3 door handle also seems to be a lot more susceptible to freezing up in cold high humidity situations.

I grew up 20 minutes south of the Canadian border in New England and always dreaded those mornings we had freezing rain and car was frozen shut. Even then though I could break through the ice with some raps from a rubber mallet, get in and start the car and it would be fairly thawed out 20 minutes later.

The real mystery to me is how none of this showed up in Tesla’s winter testing they did that involved things like shooting aerial drone footage of Model 3s kicking ass on icy closed course race tracks.

Maybe they garage the cars every night and don’t realize some people have to park outdoors.

Wow curse words.

Everyone eventually shows who they are.

All you have to do is wait.

 

[voip-ninja]

Wow curse words.

Everyone eventually shows who they are.

All you have to do is wait.

There are entire lengthy threads with multiple respondents in every Model 3 forum as well as general EV sites about these winter driving issues but you continue to insist the car is as good in the winter as an ICE.

So, yeah, bullshit. Considering how much garbage you dish out you’ll pardon me if your admonishment rings hollow in my ears.

 

[happyzod]

This morning my battery was cold soaked. Couldn't accept a charge for 2 hours even with the heat on. Thought the BMS would manage it and start up the motor to heat the pack up, but it didn't. Had 75% SOC this morning.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I've never had a car that, under those conditions, would not freeze up and make entry difficult. Melting snow followed by a hard freeze is impossible to design around. Volvo, Ford, VW, it doesn't matter, they all freeze shut under those difficult conditions. Sometimes some hard pounding with the heel of your closed fist will do the trick (but I can understand being reluctant to pound a car you typically only baby). I've even resorted to peeing on the doors when returning from a backcountry ski trip and there was no hot water or electricity handy. No, it wan't a Tesla, fortunately, Tesla's don't have keyholes. Because keyholes are the really stubborn thing to get unfrozen.

I cringe when people act like the Model 3 (or any Tesla for that matter) is somehow different from other cars because the designers are all from "California". Some people even pretend they are all from "Southern California". It makes no sense, Tesla is composed of people from all over and are no more likely to freeze shut than any other car - it's mostly a function of the conditions, not the car.

Agreed, I take mine to Tahoe all the time, which makes the snowfall in Canada look like flurries. We get snow 5 feet at a time in California and my Model 3 handles it with ease. Just be sure to put some isopropyl alcohol in your washer fluid, the stuff you buy in the auto parts store (in CA) freezes.

 

[spinbackwards]

There are entire lengthy threads with multiple respondents in every Model 3 forum as well as general EV sites about these winter driving issues but you continue to insist the car is as good in the winter as an ICE.

So, yeah, bullshit. Considering how much garbage you dish out you’ll pardon me if your admonishment rings hollow in my ears.

Why does every Internet forum have someone like this cat voip-ninja? People like them are such a turn off. Hey voip-ninja. I get it, you're the he/she/it. You're tough, a know it all, king of the world.

But if you're so cool, how come you have time to chat to people who aren't in the room? Why aren't you off being cool somewhere?

 

[ricohman]

Just to be clear mine is garaged overnight, always, including the time it was stranded. It’s not a heated garage so still gets well below freezing on the coldest nights and anyway this is more about everyday winter conditions than one specific weather event.

Freezing rain hasn’t been a particular issue for me so far. The once or twice we’ve had it and the TM3 has been outdoors, the car just gets a coating of ice which you have to remove (e.g. slightly harder thump on the door handles) much like any other car. The TM3 winter issues are more because of moisture getting into nooks and crannies then freezing and causing some unique issues because of the charge port and door handle designs.

The right testing would have been quite easy - car wash on a freezing day or just freeze and thaw a slightly moist car a few times. These can be challenges for other cars but not in a way that makes it impossible to refuel.

As for the deniers, the same type of people also told me my immediate loss of regen when fitting winter tires was imaginary, due to bad tires/mounting or would just sort itself out when the car “learned”. An inspection of my brake pads would tell you otherwise and Tesla didn’t think so either, hence the fix (finally) in 2018.50.... Thankfully the company iteself doesn’t just deny issues when presented with feedback.

I appreciate your experience. We are supposed to have daytime highs of -30 this week. With the wind it will be more like -40 or lower.
I have been reading the Canadian forums as the more I read the more I believe the Model 3 is a summer only car. I have summer only cars but I would like to drive this all year. I'm going to retire a couple of older cars and thought this could replace them.
It can snow here during any month. But the snow isn't the problem.
I'm unsure that EV's can be used daily where I live. Once I get to the city the plug ins at work are the usual block heater plugs that cycle on and off to save energy. So you only get 50% power.
The power of the Model 3 in nice but I'm not buying it just because its a quick car. I've driven 10 second street cars for years. And you can't use that kind of power in the cold anyway. I don't live in a city and extended travel is needed often.
Maybe a hybrid is better for my location at this time? Decisions.

 

[voip-ninja]

Why does every Internet forum have someone like this cat voip-ninja? People like them are such a turn off. Hey voip-ninja. I get it, you're the he/she/it. You're tough, a know it all, king of the world.

But if you're so cool, how come you have time to chat to people who aren't in the room? Why aren't you off being cool somewhere?

Well you sure told me. And those pants!!

 

[richyrich]

I appreciate your experience. We are supposed to have daytime highs of -30 this week. With the wind it will be more like -40 or lower.
I have been reading the Canadian forums as the more I read the more I believe the Model 3 is a summer only car. I have summer only cars but I would like to drive this all year. I'm going to retire a couple of older cars and thought this could replace them.
It can snow here during any month. But the snow isn't the problem.
I'm unsure that EV's can be used daily where I live. Once I get to the city the plug ins at work are the usual block heater plugs that cycle on and off to save energy. So you only get 50% power.
The power of the Model 3 in nice but I'm not buying it just because its a quick car. I've driven 10 second street cars for years. And you can't use that kind of power in the cold anyway. I don't live in a city and extended travel is needed often.
Maybe a hybrid is better for my location at this time? Decisions.

I've spent a couple of winters in Winnipeg - those prairie winters are something else - that wind!!!

TBH I don't think it's a summer-only car. It's done just fine with snow and ice and drives great in all winter conditions. The most painful issues I've had are with the freezing charging port lock and for that I expect they will come out with a new part and retrofit to existing owners. In second place would be the door handles which are a bit annoying (and embarrassing) to deal with but livable. I do 50,000km per year between work and ferrying kids, in all weathers - I just can't have a car that isn't reliable for several months of the year so if they don't fix the charging port 100% I probably will switch before next winter.

 

[StealthP3D]

I have been reading the Canadian forums as the more I read the more I believe the Model 3 is a summer only car.

Being an avid snow skier, I always think about winter weather before I buy any car. We've now replaced both of our ICE cars with Model 3's. We still have an F-150 4X4 pick-up but I've only taken it skiing twice and it's a terrible ski vehicle so, when we sold our last ice car I already knew the Model 3 was a great ski car. The F-150 is slow to heat up the cab, dangerous on ice, and has crappy driving dynamics overall. The Model 3 beats it in the winter in every category but range. I guess when a full tank is 36 gallons of gasoline, even 17 mpg will get you further than an EV. But I charge the Model 3 at our ski cabin so range is a moot point.

The remote heating of the powerful heater in the Model 3 makes it a winner in the winter. I turn on the heat before I leave to go skiing and also when I'm on the last chairlift ride of the day. It's super nice to have the car all warmed up (including the heated seats) when I show up worn out when I'm too beat to ski another run. No more standing around smelling cold stinky winter exhaust as I wait for the windows to defog and the cabin to warm up.

The winter driving dynamics are great when the road is treacherous and the superior safety rating is comforting to know about when I think of an on-coming car sliding out of control into our lane. Now how can I get the other skiers to upgrade to a Tesla so they don't hold me up on a powder day and I don't have to breathe their stinky winter fumes in the parking lot?

 

[StealthP3D]

I just can't have a car that isn't reliable for several months of the year so if they don't fix the charging port 100% I probably will switch before next winter.

Speaking of reliability, it's amazing how many ICE cars and trucks won't even start when it gets into the sub-zero temperatures (or even single digits). Reliability of ICE really sucks in cold temperatures. Fuel doesn't want to vaporize, oil gets thicker, starters don't want to turn engines over and starting batteries can't put out enough power to make it all happen. You might just get the dreadful groan and clicking noise.

You don't have to worry if your Model 3 will start in the extreme cold.

 

[Hegemony]

Enjoying this thread. Here’s my perspective. I live by the 49th latitude. I drove my model 3 to the top of a Canadian Rockies today to do 30 km of Nordic skate skiing. I was the only Tesla in the parking lot.

This car destroys winter. The traction control. I have awd dual motor. I have eschewed the hakkapelitas. What’s the point? I own the mountain. I have chains as necessary.

Yeah sure I’ve had some ice on the door and the window. Like my ice car in the Starbucks drive thru. But if I condition the car early. No problems.

Car sucks if I dump 14000 gallons of supercooled water on it right before I go to bed and nighttime lows are 30 def F below zero and I forget to climate the app an hour before I go. Beware!!

Yes I park outside. This is my first post. I got some cool winter Tesla pics for anyone insterested. This thing destroys the winter. You all be crazy. Stop whining about extreme use cases. Enjoy the dominant use cases. AP safer than me on treacherous ice.

 

[TheLocNar]

Tesla should have just made framed doors. Would have been much simpler.

 

[voip-ninja]

Tesla should have just made framed doors. Would have been much simpler.

I’m sure Tesla had very legitimate reasons for doing frameless doors. Could have been weight savings or aerodynamic efficiency or both.

From what I’ve read the far bigger issue is frozen charge ports and it does sound like Tesla have a redesigned part in the works to try to address that issue.

When the charge port is frozen you are screwed. Especially if you are getting low on battery and need to charge it. A couple hours with a hairdryer doesn’t seem like a very good option. I pity the poor SOBs dealing with a frozen charge port with young kids in the car crying that they are hungry or want to go home.

 

[dhanson865]

I always clear the snow before entering the trunk area on all my cars as snow sliding off the back window into the trunk is a common problem

It was never an issue on the Prius or Leaf with snow in the trunk because they are hatchbacks. When I switch to the Model 3 it'll be the first non hatchback I've used as a daily driver since before 2010.

I'm sure I'm not alone in making that transition.