Model 3 Track Day: Laguna Seca

[mattcrowley]

Wouldn't that suggest that if the spring was holding the entire load of the car, that it would be even more compressed? Those tighter coils allow for no more compression.

Correct. I do notice a slightly softer first hit with these springs than the factory.

Here is a great video from Teslanomics by Ben Sullins (Teslanomics | Decoding the Data Behind Tesla - Teslanomics) sharing more details about these springs with data:

 

[mongo]

This one is tough, since I had the jack still holding some pressure (under the jack mount location), and the wheel/tire (under the car for added safety) holding some pressure of the car...while the jack stand was under the lower suspension arm. So...don't read too much into this compression, since the spring wasn't holding the entire load of the car.

You'll know better than anyone what the loading was, based on the sequence it could be loaded higher than normal.
My understanding of order of operations :

1. Jack under jack point lifts car until tire is off the ground.
   • This unloads two corners and loads diagonal corner
   • Jack is supporting more than the wheel originally did
2. Tire removed and placed under chassis for safety
3. Jack stand placed under control arm
   • Stand raised to just below control arm
4. Jack lowered to get weight on stand

Final loading could result in the stand holding more than the wheel was originally since two corners are less loaded when hub is higher that normal.

Other question: do you add any protection material between the jack stand and the control arm to prevent dents (for lack of a better word)? (Or am I over thinking aluminum?)

 

[Gerasimental]

I don't think either one of those are switched reluctance motors.

Can't speak for the Bolt, but the i3 motor is a hybrid synchronous motor. This means it is a hybrid between a synchronous reluctance motor and a synchronous PM motor. It uses a distributed winding on the stator and a combination of permanent magnets and a flux barriers on the rotor.

If the Model 3 uses a hybrid between a swtiched reluctance motor and a PM motor, this would indeed be new. Hybrid SynRM has been done, hybrid SRM hasn't. Do we have evidence that the model 3 is a hybrid SRM rather than hybrid SynRM?

 

[diamond.g]

Can't speak for the Bolt, but the i3 motor is a hybrid synchronous motor. This means it is a hybrid between a synchronous reluctance motor and a synchronous PM motor. It uses a distributed winding on the stator and a combination of permanent magnets and a flux barriers on the rotor.

If the Model 3 uses a hybrid between a swtiched reluctance motor and a PM motor, this would indeed be new. Hybrid SynRM has been done, hybrid SRM hasn't. Do we have evidence that the model 3 is a hybrid SRM rather than hybrid SynRM?

Aside from @Ingineer saying so? Nope. Tesla for sure hasn't said anything publicly about it.

 

[mattcrowley]

Towed to Tesla Service. Tesla has been great on reporting service status. I will do a full report near the end of the week when the service details settle down.

 

[sreams]

You'll know better than anyone what the loading was, based on the sequence it could be loaded higher than normal.
My understanding of order of operations :

1. Jack under jack point lifts car until tire is off the ground.
   • This unloads two corners and loads diagonal corner
   • Jack is supporting more than the wheel originally did
2. Tire removed and placed under chassis for safety
3. Jack stand placed under control arm
   • Stand raised to just below control arm
4. Jack lowered to get weight on stand

Final loading could result in the stand holding more than the wheel was originally since two corners are less loaded when hub is higher that normal.

Other question: do you add any protection material between the jack stand and the control arm to prevent dents (for lack of a better word)? (Or am I over thinking aluminum?)

The easy way to know for sure is to tale a picture of the spring while the car sits on its wheels on a flat surface.

 

[bmah]

Towed to Tesla Service. Tesla has been great on reporting service status. I will do a full report near the end of the week when the service details settle down.

Maybe I missed this part of the story but how'd you get the car home from the track with no brakes?

Bruce.

 

[jerjozwik]

regen!

 

[DrDabbles]

The 3 does appear to have a larger radiator and condenser than the S/X. It looks to be full frunk width and tilted for maximum available area.

I may have worded this poorly. I meant the Model 3 doesn't seem to show any signs that it needs a bigger radiator than it already has. Meaning, a Model 3 P-LR-D doesn't seem like it would need a larger radiator than the Model 3 LR. I've seen the new radiator design in the German language Model 3 videos, and I agree with you. The angle mount and the size of the entire radiator package, combined with a motor that runs significantly cooler than the induction motor in the S and X almost certainly means the cooling system can easily handle the heat created by the motors and discharging batteries.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

As for unplugging the wheel speed sensors, that's exactly what the Drag Races guy did when he got his Model 3 on the dyno. Since the Model 3 doesn't appear to have fuses, this is our only option. But, my comment was in response to allowing customers to disable the safety features, most of which are required by various regulatory bodies, and they're getting more and more strict about allowing full disable of the entire system. So basically, no slider option in the cabin to allow you to go from full on to no ABS/EBD/TC/etc. Slip start is probably as good as it's going to get. If the owner decides to unplug a sensor, that's on them. But the manufacturer can't really be held liable for that.

 

[mongo]

I may have worded this poorly. I meant the Model 3 doesn't seem to show any signs that it needs a bigger radiator than it already has. Meaning, a Model 3 P-LR-D doesn't seem like it would need a larger radiator than the Model 3 LR. I've seen the new radiator design in the German language Model 3 videos, and I agree with you. The angle mount and the size of the entire radiator package, combined with a motor that runs significantly cooler than the induction motor in the S and X almost certainly means the cooling system can easily handle the heat created by the motors and discharging batteries.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

As for unplugging the wheel speed sensors, that's exactly what the Drag Races guy did when he got his Model 3 on the dyno. Since the Model 3 doesn't appear to have fuses, this is our only option. But, my comment was in response to allowing customers to disable the safety features, most of which are required by various regulatory bodies, and they're getting more and more strict about allowing full disable of the entire system. So basically, no slider option in the cabin to allow you to go from full on to no ABS/EBD/TC/etc. Slip start is probably as good as it's going to get. If the owner decides to unplug a sensor, that's on them. But the manufacturer can't really be held liable for that.

Nah, I think the confusion was on my part.
The radiator comment was a factoid of design margin (supporting not needing a bigger one since it's already bigger).

(Other than EPA types) most regs are for on-road use, so there is the possibility to have geo-fenced track zones where traction/ stability/ abs are allowed to be disabled. Some countries have that currently with their national top speed limits. Would also allow tracking of track use for warranty purposes.

Manufacturer would need to allow/ implement though. Maybe a race package, higher cost but includes more coverage and better replacement parts. Model 3 Red Line edition (High Voltage?, MW?)? Free-ish stress testing.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Model 3 Type R

 

[ilovemycoffee]

Would a turbo fan wheel cover help with brake cooling (if there was one available for the Model 3)?

 

[voip-ninja]

Towed to Tesla Service. Tesla has been great on reporting service status. I will do a full report near the end of the week when the service details settle down.

Do you have an update now that it's been around a week since Tesla got the car in for service?

 

[mattcrowley]

Sorry it took so long to respond. I have been busy at work and life. Watching my kid's high school robots Team 971 "Spartan Robotics" compete in the San Fransisco FIRST regional (videos) competition. Kinda proud. ;-)

Ok...here is what I just posted on a YouTube comment in the brake video:
"The Tesla Model 3 brakes are obviously not designed for this [track day]. No surprise. What is promising is that the Model 3 lasted the session without thermal limiting. EVs lasting this long on a track is still a new thing. We are not there yet, but this year is promising for what could happen with performance EV modifications and potential tracking.

I (and many others in the industry) are still looking for performance 3rd party brake pads...they don't exist, YET... There are some options to make custom performance brake pads that we are looking into, but those will be expensive. Unplugged Performance is offer front carbon ceramics, but they are very expensive (~$9K).

There is also an option to use Model S pads and cut them down to fit. This might be a short term option, since the Model S pad compound is better than the stock Model 3.

Tesla currently doesn't offer Model 3 pads for sale by themselves. Not an option at all...YET. Apparently, Brembo doesn't YET sell Tesla Model 3 brake pads separately from the brake system (rotors/pads/calipers), so complete set needs to be replaced...at this point in time. Yes...that is rough, but that is what is happening right now.

Leave you all with a positive note here...the market is listening and there will be solutions coming. Just not right now. EV performance modifications is coming."

Here is the final cost brake down (Total was: $3,101.75):

 

[VT_EE]

Sorry it took so long to respond. I have been busy at work and life. Watching my kid's high school robots Team 971 "Spartan Robotics" compete in the San Fransisco FIRST regional (videos) competition. Kinda proud. ;-)

Ok...here is what I just posted on a YouTube comment in the brake video:
"The Tesla Model 3 brakes are obviously not designed for this [track day]. No surprise. What is promising is that the Model 3 lasted the session without thermal limiting. EVs lasting this long on a track is still a new thing. We are not there yet, but this year is promising for what could happen with performance EV modifications and potential tracking.

I (and many others in the industry) are still looking for performance 3rd party brake pads...they don't exist, YET... There are some options to make custom performance brake pads that we are looking into, but those will be expensive. Unplugged Performance is offer front carbon ceramics, but they are very expensive (~$9K).

There is also an option to use Model S pads and cut them down to fit. This might be a short term option, since the Model S pad compound is better than the stock Model 3.

Tesla currently doesn't offer Model 3 pads for sale by themselves. Not an option at all...YET. Apparently, Brembo doesn't YET sell Tesla Model 3 brake pads separately from the brake system (rotors/pads/calipers), so complete set needs to be replaced...at this point in time. Yes...that is rough, but that is what is happening right now.

Leave you all with a positive note here...the market is listening and there will be solutions coming. Just not right now. EV performance modifications is coming."

Here is the final cost brake down (Total was: $3,101.75):
View attachment 288456

Wow! Why did all the calipers need replacing?

 

[mkspeedr]

Yikes - that was an expensive track day. That is my track tire budget for the year.

 

[MP3Mike]

Wow! Why did all the calipers need replacing?

Try reading what he wrote.

 

[MP3Mike]

Here is the final cost brake down (Total was: $3,101.75):

I hope you at least asked to keep the old parts.

 

[VT_EE]

Try reading what he wrote.

I had to read that 3 times before it sank in. So Tesla has been selling this car for 8 months, and you can't buy just discs and rotors without also buying the calipers. That is insane.

 

[MP3Mike]

I had to read that 3 times before it sank in. So Tesla has been selling this car for 8 months, and you can't buy just discs and rotors without also buying the calipers. That is insane.

Well the brakes are expected to last 100k+ miles under normal conditions. So it will be quit a while before most people would even need to consider replacing the brake pads/rotors.