Wiki Model S Delivery Update

[EndlessPlaid]

You would think tesla would know this but all of the cars they use for testing are on 21"? Charge level? Difference in cars from the factory?

This is exactly my point. Tesla would've without a doubt provided the 19s if they were faster. But if they were really close on a dragstrip, but not as consistent or repeatable, the same would happen. I've yet to see a 9.23 second pass on the 19s on a dragstrip though, but I've now seen 2 cases of the Plaid on 21s running 9.23 to 9.25 and 0-60 in 1.99 to 2.0 on the street and many times on the dragstrip. Time will tell, but my theory is that the 21s are more consistent and reliable on a street, and are still a little faster in a dragstrip, but with the proper setup, a 19 inch car could be a pretty much negligible difference on the dragstrip.

 

[bhzmark]

You would think tesla would know this but all of the cars they use for testing are on 21"? Charge level? Difference in cars from the factory?

profit margin on the 21s explains all

 

[AnselmDante]

Here are the actual numbers showing the 19" in consistently a tenth faster -- in the best apples to apples comparison so far.

View attachment 710674

We're still talking about a small sample between two different cars. The only real verification here would be to swap the tires between the cars, and then show the slower car is now a tenth faster with the 19's, and the one with the 21's is now a tenth slower. Until that happens, we won't know for sure if these cars are just not identically capable.

 

[bhzmark]

Tesla would've without a doubt provided the 19s if they were faster.

Not if they wanted people to buy 21s

[21s] are still a little faster in a dragstrip

all facts to the contrary so far.

Consider being open minded and following the data and evidence as it increasingly becomes available as more 19s are timed -- that has only just begun.

Years ago the edge to the 19s was confirmed with the P85DL. The continuation of that fact is no surprise.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Not if they wanted people to buy 21s


all facts to the contrary so far.

Consider being open minded and following the data and evidence as it increasingly becomes available as more 19s are timed -- that has only just begun.

Years ago the edge to the 19s was confirmed with the P85DL. The continuation of that fact is no surprise.

Disagree. No one goes and buys wheels based on MT tests. They look at the number, and most of the time assume (correctly or incorrectly) both wheel options will achieve that.


UM excuse me? That is effing rude dude. I've ALWAYS been the positive person, and I've never been closed minded. I cannot stand people who are, so I try my very best not to be one. WOW. I was HAPPY to see the 19s to 9.28, and go faster in the 1/8 mile. Just because I'm disagreeing with what you are saying and stating real factors does not make me closed minded. I'm trying to be realistic here.
And we HAVE NOT seen a full 1/4 mile test of the 19s hit 9.23. Fastest I've seen so far is 9.28 at like 150 mph.
And you cannot compare the P85DL to the Plaid. The P85D is a relative pig compared to the Plaid in terms of grip needs. I cannot stress this enough. Totally different beasts, AND the P85D had better tires on the 19s then the current 19s on the Plaid.

 

[AnselmDante]

UM excuse me? That is effing rude dude. I've ALWAYS been the positive person

 

[EndlessPlaid]

OMG actually LOL there!

 

[drdonger]

Has anyone taken delivery this past week? How is the quality of the recent cars being delivered? My scheduled delivery is next Thur.

 

[josahua]

I am hoping you are preparing for beyond pissed.

Yeah. Why cancel plaid+ orders if you will roll out plaid+ “like” vehicles on the same timeframe(summer 2022). No need to answer as logic does not apply…..

 

[Spyderman09]

I reached out to Michelin to see if the 21" A/S tires are coming soon, and they said Nov 1. Unfortunately, they only confirmed the rear tire size (I sent a follow up so we'll see).

Maybe I'll just get A/S for the rear and keep the summer fronts. Best of all worlds! (I'm kidding, in case anyone thinks I'm serious).

 

[bhzmark]

Disagree. No one goes and buys wheels based on MT tests. They look at the number, and most of the time assume (correctly or incorrectly) both wheel options will achieve that.


UM excuse me? That is effing rude dude. I've ALWAYS been the positive person, and not being closed minded. I cannot stand people who are, so I try my very best not to be one. WOW. I was HAPPY to see the 19s to 9.28, and go faster in the 1/8 mile.
And we HAVE NOT seen a full 1/4 mile test of the 19s hit 9.23. Fastest I've seen so far is 9.28 at like 150 mph.
And you cannot compare the P85DL to the Plaid. The P85D is a relative pig compared to the Plaid in terms of grip needs. I cannot stress this enough. Totally different beasts, AND the P85D had better tires on the 19s then the current 19s on the Plaid.

1. Just consider waiting for the data -and then when it comes -- don't pretend that it shows that 19" and 21" are the same. The video shows a tenth difference which is sizable.

2. And also consider the decreased rotational mass of 19" may have more benefit than increased tire width (or other differences) of the 21". There was a post a while back somewhere that weighed all 4 different tire/wheel setups front and rear of the Tempest and 2021Arachnids. I can't find it though.

3. The P85DL gets a low 1.6x 60 foot time (my time posted on dragtimes.com is 1.61 -- on all-seasons) while Plaid gets 1.5x. (except the 19" Plaid which gets some high 1.4s) on summer tires. Hardly a "pig". And yes you can compare them. I just did. And will do so again.

4. AND The P85DL 19" had all Michelin MXM or Goodyear Eagle all-seasons!! These 19" tires with the Plaid (maybe not some LRs) are Pirelli summer tires! Why are you saying the P85D 19" had better tires?

 

[xEvoLveDx]

1. Just consider waiting for the data -and then when it comes -- don't pretend that it shows that 19" and 21" are the same. The video shows a tenth difference which is sizable.

2. And also consider the decreased rotational mass of 19" may have more benefit than increased tire width (or other differences) of the 21". There was a post a while back somewhere that weighed all 4 different tire/wheel setups front and rear of the Tempest and 2021Arachnids. I can't find it though.

3. The P85DL gets a low 1.6x 60 foot time (my time posted on dragtimes.com is 1.61 -- on all-seasons) while Plaid gets 1.5x. (except the 19" Plaid which gets some high 1.4s) on summer tires. Hardly a "pig". And yes you can compare them. I just did. And will do so again.

4. AND The P85DL 19" had all Michelin MXM or Goodyear Eagle all-seasons!! These 19" tires with the Plaid (maybe not some LRs) are Pirelli summer tires! Why are you saying the P85D 19" had better tires?

Wait did I miss something? Did a stock weight stock 19in Plaid beat the 0-60, 1/8 and 1/4 mile records currently held by stock weight stock 21in Plaids? All the data I have seen the 21s still have those records. Maybe the 19s will take them eventually but I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Rocketfan30]

Yeah. Why cancel plaid+ orders if you will roll out plaid+ “like” vehicles on the same timeframe(summer 2022). No need to answer as logic does not apply…..

There are logical reasons: capitalism for one. If you want to juice demand for Plaid or LR and feel that having Plaid + with 500 miles range and the new 4680 batteries (the true refresh) would delay or depress demand, it MIGHT make sense to "unannounce the Plaid + and stop sales. There are already more "inventory" Plaids showing up around the country.

If they didn't kill the Plaid + (with Elon's silly statement that no one needs more than 400 miles range), I would have waited for the Plaid + because the refresh I really wanted was a Model S with the new battery and all its advantages.

That being said, I agree with you and am almost certain we won't see a Plaid + in 2022 or 2023. They're not keeping up with demand using the old batteries as it is and I gotta think that the first few years of 4680 production are already fully committed to other vehicles. I'm hoping to see Model S cars with 4680s about the time I am ready to switch out my refreshed Model S (5+ years).

If it's sooner, I can wait a little and save time commiserating in line with like minded order holders. As much as I like this forum, I can't believe how much time I have had waiting for delivery to spend on it.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

1. Just consider waiting for the data -and then when it comes -- don't pretend that it shows that 19" and 21" are the same. The video shows a tenth difference which is sizable.

2. And also consider the decreased rotational mass of 19" may have more benefit than increased tire width (or other differences) of the 21". There was a post a while back somewhere that weighed all 4 different tire/wheel setups front and rear of the Tempest and 2021Arachnids. I can't find it though.

3. The P85DL gets a low 1.6x 60 foot time (my time posted on dragtimes.com is 1.61 -- on all-seasons) while Plaid gets 1.5x. (except the 19" Plaid which gets some high 1.4s) on summer tires. Hardly a "pig". And yes you can compare them. I just did. And will do so again.

4. AND The P85DL 19" had all Michelin MXM or Goodyear Eagle all-seasons!! These 19" tires with the Plaid (maybe not some LRs) are Pirelli summer tires! Why are you saying the P85D 19" had better tires?

1. I will be overjoyed when it does, like I was when the LR pulled a 130 mph trap. Till then, 21s seem to be faster as all info so far has stated.
2. Smaller wheels are usually faster because of that wheel mass. I agree. However, if this was true, someone would've already run faster 0-60 with the 19s. It only took 25 Plaids delivered for @omarsultan to get a 2.14 0-60. Maybe that will happen soon. I don't know.
3. The P85DL has 523 hp from the battery to put down. The Plaid has more than TWO TIMES that amount, and a hell of a lot more torque as well. The difference in physics and tire technicalities increase exponentially the faster you go, and there is big difference from a high 2 second or low 3 second car, to a really really low 2 second car.
4. Maybe I should've phrased it differently: It could make do with a compound it had way better than the Plaid seems to be able to. The reasons for that are what I stated above.

 

[Ohmster]

I have found that Tesla does not think about your life/schedule ahead unless you tell them. I rescheduled service a couple of times now due to parts not arriving. I had to initiate it. Their process is to wait until the night before and if the parts are not in - then reschedule. They do not understand we have lives and work around them.

True. But they’ve never had an issue with us rescheduling either on our whims/from our requests or as a result of parts delivery on their part.

 

[Jabbahop]

is there any difference in tire life between 19" and 21" or is all dependent on the tire? It seems like 21" tires will cost a bit more to replace but do they last as long? thanks

 

[josahua]

There are logical reasons: capitalism for one. If you want to juice demand for Plaid or LR and feel that having Plaid + with 500 miles range and the new 4680 batteries (the true refresh) would delay or depress demand, it MIGHT make sense to "unannounce the Plaid + and stop sales. There are already more "inventory" Plaids showing up around the country.

If they didn't kill the Plaid + (with Elon's silly statement that no one needs more than 400 miles range), I would have waited for the Plaid + because the refresh I really wanted was a Model S with the new battery and all its advantages.

That being said, I agree with you and am almost certain we won't see a Plaid + in 2022 or 2023. They're not keeping up with demand using the old batteries as it is and I gotta think that the first few years of 4680 production are already fully committed to other vehicles. I'm hoping to see Model S cars with 4680s about the time I am ready to switch out my refreshed Model S (5+ years).

If it's sooner, I can wait a little and save time commiserating in line with like minded order holders. As much as I like this forum, I can't believe how much time I have had waiting for delivery to spend on it.

I hope your timeframe is correct because I will do the same darn thing.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

I reached out to Michelin to see if the 21" A/S tires are coming soon, and they said Nov 1. Unfortunately, they only confirmed the rear tire size (I sent a follow up so we'll see).

Maybe I'll just get A/S for the rear and keep the summer fronts. Best of all worlds! (I'm kidding, in case anyone thinks I'm serious).



View attachment 710691

The front size is already available. Unless it is a special series for Tesla.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+All+Season+4&partnum=635YR1PSAS4XL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

 

[Spyderman09]

The front size is already available. Unless it is a special series for Tesla.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+All+Season+4&partnum=635YR1PSAS4XL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

Nice! Also means he's gonna think I'm dumb for asking the follow up question oh well.

 

[ssv22]

Definitely drive both models before deciding. At the very least you should drive a Plaid before deciding.

I can see this working well for those all set on a Plaid and want to try the LR out.
On the other hand, LR buyers testing out the Plaid is a recipe for disaster. Its like getting used to a new drug and there’s no going back lol