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cablue

Member
Feb 4, 2013
118
56
Sierra foothills
I sure hope something changes on the S SOON! I've had my S since 2013. I've been patiently waiting for a refresh, with my hopes dissipating. Getting another S with no real change on the interior or exterior - other than the nose cone - is hard for me to do. Yes, there are obviously changes otherwise between my '13 and the newer ones, but I could not get a sunroof, even, if I ordered one now, which I love having. Car colors are so limited, too. I keep waiting, but i'm losing patience.
 

Magellan55

Member
Aug 30, 2018
380
351
Chapel Hill, NC
Model S sales have dropped ~50% compared to last year, at least in the US. Given the easy availability of the Model 3 now, the tax break loss, and new EV competition from Europe, I'd bet Elon is happy it's still selling this well. My guess is they will milk it for a while longer since there's always guys like me willing to spend extra for just the right look or some exclusivity. And focus 95% of their energy on expanding the lineup instead.
 
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Mark_T

Active Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,292
1,129
UK
A battery upgrade is far from a refresh. Elon did say it won't be long before 400 mile range comes.

I don't see how they do a significant battery upgrade without a refresh given the redesign that would be necessary...
 

CraZ8

Member
Apr 18, 2015
381
518
Fort Montgomery NY
I sure hope something changes on the S SOON! I've had my S since 2013. I've been patiently waiting for a refresh, with my hopes dissipating. Getting another S with no real change on the interior or exterior - other than the nose cone - is hard for me to do. Yes, there are obviously changes otherwise between my '13 and the newer ones, but I could not get a sunroof, even, if I ordered one now, which I love having. Car colors are so limited, too. I keep waiting, but i'm losing patience.
And I thought I had it bad with my 2015. Well first quarter 2020 is the latest moved goalpost if you can hold out that long. ( we hope) So maybe6/7 months. I will also not trade in until the new interior makes its appearance
 
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u00mem9

Member
Jun 8, 2016
943
981
USA
Yeah, the 2170 battery is coming soon, with 250 kW charging rate and 400 mile range, which is an 8% improvement. Perhaps will be announced at quarterly earnings call, July 24.

Tesla is contractually obligated to buy Panasonic 18650 cells...remember how making there own cells at the gigafactory was aborted, and to get Panasonic to pay for the capital investment needed to produce cells they had to sign a long term purchase agreement?! Powerwalls aren’t going to need to many since they seem to have run squarely into demandwall.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,851
35,471
Oregon
If my memory is correct, there was a Q&A for Tesla gigafactory around its opening. Someone asked the question about existing cars, and Elon responded he believes they will fit.

The only times I have heard it asked they said the significant redesign wasn't worth the effort and would actually reduce performance. (You can pull more power from the 18650s.)
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,731
6,262
Silicon Valley
If my memory is correct, there was a Q&A for Tesla gigafactory around its opening. Someone asked the question about existing cars, and Elon responded he believes they will fit.

I attended the grand opening event at the Gigafactory and don't recall this discussion... :cool:
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,682
12,553
California
If my memory is correct, there was a Q&A for Tesla gigafactory around its opening. Someone asked the question about existing cars, and Elon responded he believes they will fit.

This is some shaky-ass support for a rather extraordinary claim. I can’t find a single supporting piece of evidence after a good 10 minutes of google keyword sleuthing, and given the scrutiny all of Elon’s gaseous emissions receive in the media, it seems inconceivable that you’re the only one who heard this.
 
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wdolson

Supporting Member
Jul 24, 2015
7,645
10,284
Clark Co, WA
Tesla is contractually obligated to buy Panasonic 18650 cells...remember how making there own cells at the gigafactory was aborted, and to get Panasonic to pay for the capital investment needed to produce cells they had to sign a long term purchase agreement?! Powerwalls aren’t going to need to many since they seem to have run squarely into demandwall.

I believe Tesla has bought enough 18650s to fulfill the contract. When Jason Hughes tore down the first Model S pack, he thought there was enough room for the 2170s, but there are rumored leaks from within Tesla that say they won't work. It seems Tesla is sticking with 18650s for now, but that doesn't prevent them from making 18650s with the new chemistry at the GigaFactory if they wanted to.

The equipment there now is for 2170s, but if Tesla starts producing their own batteries they will have to buy their own equipment anyway.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,851
35,471
Oregon

This isn't the one I recall but JB Straubel talked about it in the Q4'2017 earnings conference call: Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the 2019 Investors' Roundtable

Romit Jitendra Shah - Nomura Instinet
Yes. Thank you. It sounds like from the letter that you could do more than 100,000 S and X in 2018, but you're constrained by the 18650s. And I'm just curious what would it take to see the 2170 cells in these vehicles?

Jeffrey B. Straubel - Tesla, Inc.

Well, this is JB. It's something we've of course contemplated, but it's quite a large change to the architecture of the module and the battery pack overall. And while the 18650 supply is somewhat of a cap at about 100,000 units per year, even just a few months ago we didn't feel that expanding and making some long-term bets on expanding that supply with Panasonic in Japan was really the right risk. It's something we could consider, but right now we're pretty happy with that balance and it matches our other production capabilities and our other investments.

You can listen here: https://edge.media-server.com/mmc/p/iufenmyd (Start at 26:54)

Here is someone else that remembers Tesla saying that the 2170s would have lower performance. Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon.

IIRC it was at the last shareholder conference.
He was explicitly asked if/when S/X would be upgraded to 2170 and replied there are no such plans currently and gave above explanation of 18650 offering higher performance.

And a tweet from Elon talking about 2170s being for cost and not performance: Elon Musk on Twitter

No plans to change 100 kWh pack tech. You'll never worry about running out of range. Model 3 pack is about cost reduction, not performance.
 
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Krash

Data Technician
Apr 18, 2017
1,921
2,095
Intermountain US
... Here is someone else that remembers Tesla saying that the 2170s would have lower performance. Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon...
It is interesting that if there is some battery trade off between power and range (and/or power and longevity, charging speed, etc.) Then one easy solution would be ultracapacitors, since even though they are bulky, you can fit them in akwardly sized unused space and you only need
enough to augment power for the period after the fixed torque period meets the power limit up until the motor back EMF starts. In other words, in the beginning it takes time to reach the max power and in the end the motors spin too fast to use max power but in between there is currently a time when the car is not traction limited but could use the extra power. Maxwell anyone?
 
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