Model S range and interior update imminent?

[Xenoilphobe]

I'm pretty sure these guys are helping with some of the new options.

Champagne Holder
Frig
radar
armor
oil slick
machine gun ports
etc..

Q

 

[MarkS22]

Speak for yourself. My when is never.

Never? That defies all logic and historical evidence unless you’re expecting the S to be discontinued.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

Speak for yourself. My when is never.

This reminds me of discussions in the early HDTV forums, when people would openly wonder if certain shows, like Survivor, would ever switch to HD. I would invariably always chime in that everything would be in HD at some point....480i couldn't last forever.

It's going to happen, just not as fast as everybody thinks!

 

[MarkS22]

This reminds me of discussions in the early HDTV forums, when people would openly wonder if certain shows, like Survivor, would ever switch to HD. I would invariably always chime in that everything would be in HD at some point....480i couldn't last forever.

It's going to happen, just not as fast as everybody thinks!

Agree, but I do think something has to happen this year. I'm a perfect example and I know quite a few others. I have a P85D coming off lease next month. I purchased a 3 to hold me over until the S refreshes. Instead of getting higher margins on a vehicle with nowhere near a 400,000 person wait list, they got the sale of a 3. Had they refreshed the S at the launch of the 3, I would've gone with the S. I suspect fall of this year, we'll hear something.

I drive both now and there's no way anyone who sees a 3 will want an S once there's an AWD and/or Performance variant. It's a better vehicle in every way... except size. My caveat is that if you absolutely need a hatchback and slightly more storage, you'd still want an S. In my case, with a family and a dog, I really need a hatchback. A Model 3 Performance AWD hatchback would be perfect... unless the S starts getting better technology because that's a big motivator for me. With the 2020 Roadster on the horizon, the S is going to lose the performance crown soon as well. So where exactly does it fit in the lineup? The cabin space is almost identical and actually has more headroom. It has better range (on the LR) than the best S. It has newer Autopilot hardware. It has all the little enhancements S owners have been asking for, like faster center screen, better cup holders, door pockets, and lighted mirrors. The dashboard and roof are gorgeous. Based on what I'm seeing with the single motor 3, I also suspect a Performance AWD will be highly competitive with the S. What it might lack in motor power, it makes up with less weight.

I understand the 3 is the mass future, but the S (and X) got them there. Keeping them (and their margins) stagnant would be a big mistake. They have people waiting to pay $150,000 for P100Ds, sitting on the sidelines because--for example--the center display processor is from 2011 and it's slower than a $35,000 Model 3. That's ridiculous.

I really didn't expect the 3 to be so comparable to the S, hence my concern as more people drive them and compare the two.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

What type of interior refresh are you speculating?

Posts #1, #32 and #63 here list the main things:

Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD

There's more in the same thread.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Speak for yourself. My when is never.

OK. Did not understand that was your position, got it.

 

[lunitiks]

Boatloads of truths in your last post there, @MarkS22

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I really didn't expect the 3 to be so comparable to the S, hence my concern as more people drive them and compare the two.

I did. I never bought the Model 3 anti-sell last spring. It is the better car in every way but size and current performance, but in reality it probably has the potential for better performance until Model S/X get battery and motor upgrades (which I expect they will, to 21-70s and Model 3 type of motors).

Model 3 is the Tesla version 3. It has happened with every step with Tesla. Model X is better than Model S in so many details, obviously Model 3 is better than both...

 

[Krugerrand]

Never? That defies all logic and historical evidence unless you’re expecting the S to be discontinued.

1. No plans to upgrade to the larger cells - reason given that it would require substantial engineering changes (read expensive, labor and time intensive) - anyone under the impression that a new interior is somehow easy, cheap and not time consuming needs to put the Legos down
2. No plans to increase production rate beyond 100k for BOTH S & X world wide and continue to reduce options
3. Fully focussed on ramp of Model 3 (and stated they’ve pulled all bodies to achieve this including Elon camping on Gigafactory roof over Thanksgiving) - to date they are still in production hell (read nobody is working on anything but the 3 and won’t be until they hit 5k per week which had been stated as the magic number needed for margins at which point 3 is a cash cow that feeds the herd moving forward)
4. Plans to show prototype of Model Y the end of this yearish
5. Expecting and counting on by all indications and words and guidance for 3 to pave the future money way, not S & X
6. Additional near future plans for semi truck, Roadster and pick up
7. Company path from day 1 to advance the adoption of sustainable energy and transport (read trying to get MILLIONS of EVs into the hands of people all over the world like yesterday-read affordability IS key and 100k total of two expensive vehicles doesn’t get that done)
8. Been listening to people here complain about S not getting any love for 9? months and that a refresh is coming but nada
9. Hearing almost unanimous reports that 3 is a superior car to S (and from what I’ve seen and experienced, I wholeheartedly agree)
10. Simultaneously working on Tesla Solar, Tesla Energy, Tesla Vision, Tesla Network, expansion of SuperCharger Network, Service, more Gigafactories, etc....
11. Elon’s new incentive package connected directly to marketcap - hint: you don’t get to 600B in market value by selling 100k per year world wide of two vehicles
12. No tweets from Elon hinting at new stuff coming down the pipe for S like in the ‘ole’ days, no discoveries of new hidden coding telling us secrets

I’m just trying to connect the dots and so far there’s been absolutely no indication from Tesla that a refresh is coming, quite the contrary. Logically what does that all say to you?

 

[MarkS22]

I did. I never bought the Model 3 anti-sell last spring. It is the better car in every way but size and current performance, but in reality it probably has the potential for better performance until Model S/X get battery and motor upgrades (which I expect they will, to 21-70s and Model 3 type of motors).

Model 3 is the Tesla version 3. It has happened with every step with Tesla. Model X is better than Model S in so many details, obviously Model 3 is better than both...

I knew they were downselling, but I still didn’t think it would be so close. I thought they’d be able to coexist in different classes, like Mercedes E and S, or BMW 3 and 5/7.

However, the cabin size, performance, and storage is so close... with better range/tech. That surprised me. I didn’t expect it to feel more “premium” than the S. And I expected the S to be refreshed to hide this better. Musk has said the S would always be at the forefront but we’re not seeing that here. There hasn’t been a major update since Fall 2016.

At this point, just give me a performance hatchback Model 3 with AWD and I’m good.

 

[lunitiks]

S is bigger and better looking still. But thats about it, unfortunately...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

1. No plans to upgrade to the larger cells - reason given that it would require substantial engineering changes (read expensive, labor and time intensive) - anyone under the impression that a new interior is somehow easy, cheap and not time consuming needs to put the Legos down
2. No plans to increase production rate beyond 100k for BOTH S & X world wide and continue to reduce options
3. Fully focussed on ramp of Model 3 (and stated they’ve pulled all bodies to achieve this including Elon camping on Gigafactory roof over Thanksgiving) - to date they are still in production hell (read nobody is working on anything but the 3 and won’t be until they hit 5k per week which had been stated as the magic number needed for margins at which point 3 is a cash cow that feeds the herd moving forward)
4. Plans to show prototype of Model Y the end of this yearish
5. Expecting and counting on by all indications and words and guidance for 3 to pave the future money way, not S & X
6. Additional near future plans for semi truck, Roadster and pick up
7. Company path from day 1 to advance the adoption of sustainable energy and transport (read trying to get MILLIONS of EVs into the hands of people all over the world like yesterday-read affordability IS key and 100k total of two expensive vehicles doesn’t get that done)
8. Been listening to people here complain about S not getting any love for 9? months and that a refresh is coming but nada
9. Hearing almost unanimous reports that 3 is a superior car to S (and from what I’ve seen and experienced, I wholeheartedly agree)
10. Simultaneously working on Tesla Solar, Tesla Energy, Tesla Vision, Tesla Network, expansion of SuperCharger Network, Service, more Gigafactories, etc....
11. Elon’s new incentive package connected directly to marketcap - hint: you don’t get to 600B in market value by selling 100k per year world wide of two vehicles
12. No tweets from Elon hinting at new stuff coming down the pipe for S like in the ‘ole’ days, no discoveries of new hidden coding telling us secrets

I’m just trying to connect the dots and so far there’s been absolutely no indication from Tesla that a refresh is coming, quite the contrary. Logically what does that all say to you?

While there hasn't been any official word from Tesla, as there never are of any future changes, there are specific rumors of an interior upgrade as well as larger batteries.

One can of course choose to disbelieve them, but I don't see how Tesla PR to the contrary can be any proof. Their interest and history is not telling us beforehand.

Model 3 production hell could easily explain delaying already planned (and thus leaked) Model S/X changes that could still come later this year.

That said, I am not completely dismissing the Model S/X cancellation idea (and letting it languish until then). That theory has some appeal. But IMO I think it is too soon for that probably - and unlikely anyway.

 

[ChadS]

There is more than that, but this thread already has a list of things the S has over the 3 so I won't list them again.

I am excited about the 3 as well (I never wanted a car as big and expensive as the S in the first place, but it was the only long-distance EV available), and will likely replace my S with one. But there are several things about the S that I will miss.

Fortunately my wife also drives a Tesla, so after I get my 3 I can still borrow her car on occasion. Having one of each is definitely the way to go if you can make it work!

 

[MarkS22]

S is bigger and better looking still. But thats about it, unfortunately...

Arguably better looking on the exterior, but arguably not on the interior. I think that feeling will go away because the 3 is new. It feels "too short" but only because we've seen the S. It's why the front fascia looked odd on the Model S, but now looks better for most people.

The 3 also looks better in person than the photos and videos. I was surprised. I've been told (and agree) the front has hints of Porsche styling.

Also, in terms of "bigger" the car is larger, but there's not a significant increase for the passenger space. The 3 even has more headroom. The trunk is also quite large. I'd prefer a hatchback and, yes, the S can hold more... but not nearly as big a difference as I expected. The S almost feels needlessly large. If the Y is a hatchback/crossover, it makes the S an even harder sell, especially with the X as an option.

Again, I just wish (as they suggested many times) they used the S as their technology demo platform. Charge a premium but throw in the latest tech/processors/screens/cameras/premium materials. Then trickle down what they've learned into the 3, much as they've always done. The S should be a couple years ahead on processor power, have (for example) future proof 4K cameras, add dash-cam capabilities first, and get the latest EAP/FSD features months ahead of the 3. Maybe add a night vision camera or an extra radar. Or collision lights on the side mirrors. Offer a true "luxury" upgrade package with massage/active bolsters, cup warmers/heaters, HUD, and OLED rear lights. The Model S would be the perfect platform for this.

Again I don't buy the "we don't have the resources because the 3 is our focus." They made the decision to support a complete energy/solar panel division. This is draining financial and executive resources at the very least.

 

[lunitiks]

^ this ^

 

[DocZ]

Arguably better looking on the exterior, but arguably not on the interior. I think that feeling will go away because the 3 is new. It feels "too short" but only because we've seen the S. It's why the front fascia looked odd on the Model S, but now looks better for most people.

The 3 also looks better in person than the photos and videos. I was surprised. I've been told (and agree) the front has hints of Porsche styling.

Also, in terms of "bigger" the car is larger, but there's not a significant increase for the passenger space. The 3 even has more headroom. The trunk is also quite large. I'd prefer a hatchback and, yes, the S can hold more... but not nearly as big a difference as I expected. The S almost feels needlessly large. If the Y is a hatchback/crossover, it makes the S an even harder sell, especially with the X as an option.

Again, I just wish (as they suggested many times) they used the S as their technology demo platform. Charge a premium but throw in the latest tech/processors/screens/cameras/premium materials. Then trickle down what they've learned into the 3, much as they've always done. The S should be a couple years ahead on processor power, have (for example) future proof 4K cameras, add dash-cam capabilities first, and get the latest EAP/FSD features months ahead of the 3. Maybe add a night vision camera or an extra radar. Or collision lights on the side mirrors. Offer a true "luxury" upgrade package with massage/active bolsters, cup warmers/heaters, HUD, and OLED rear lights. The Model S would be the perfect platform for this.

Again I don't buy the "we don't have the resources because the 3 is our focus." They made the decision to support a complete energy/solar panel division. This is draining financial and executive resources at the very least.

Agree 100%. Instead we have the S with the old battery form factor, old processors, old interior, etc. They really need to figure it out quick.

 

[DIL]

I was hoping for a refresh of the car, but for me this refresh of the website says that it’s more about marketing the existing features than adding new ones, at least for the next six months. This picture is what it looks like on my phone. Don’t know about desktop

 

[DIL]

Every other car manufacturer has a lineup of different models segmented on slightly different wheelbases and features. I don’t see why Tesla should be any different. MS and M3 will always appeal to different demographics with MS having healthier profit margin for now. If Tesla doesn’t update features and options on MS, the risk is more from outside competition like Porsche than internal cannibalization.

 

[FlatSix911]

I knew they were downselling, but I still didn’t think it would be so close. I thought they’d be able to coexist in different classes, like Mercedes E and S, or BMW 3 and 5/7.

However, the cabin size, performance, and storage is so close... with better range/tech. That surprised me. I didn’t expect it to feel more “premium” than the S. And I expected the S to be refreshed to hide this better. Musk has said the S would always be at the forefront but we’re not seeing that here. There hasn’t been a major update since Fall 2016.

At this point, just give me a performance hatchback Model 3 with AWD and I’m good.

I agree that the Model 3 is now taking some sales away from the Model S, however once the refresh is rolled out the cars should compliment each other like the MB C/E/S and BWW 3/5/7 hierarchy. Annual combined sales of 100K for the Model S and X sounds about right going forward.

 

[P85Dave]

Agree, but I do think something has to happen this year. I'm a perfect example and I know quite a few others. I have a P85D coming off lease next month. I purchased a 3 to hold me over until the S refreshes. Instead of getting higher margins on a vehicle with nowhere near a 400,000 person wait list, they got the sale of a 3. Had they refreshed the S at the launch of the 3, I would've gone with the S. I suspect fall of this year, we'll hear something.

I drive both now and there's no way anyone who sees a 3 will want an S once there's an AWD and/or Performance variant. It's a better vehicle in every way... except size. My caveat is that if you absolutely need a hatchback and slightly more storage, you'd still want an S. In my case, with a family and a dog, I really need a hatchback. A Model 3 Performance AWD hatchback would be perfect... unless the S starts getting better technology because that's a big motivator for me. With the 2020 Roadster on the horizon, the S is going to lose the performance crown soon as well. So where exactly does it fit in the lineup? The cabin space is almost identical and actually has more headroom. It has better range (on the LR) than the best S. It has newer Autopilot hardware. It has all the little enhancements S owners have been asking for, like faster center screen, better cup holders, door pockets, and lighted mirrors. The dashboard and roof are gorgeous. Based on what I'm seeing with the single motor 3, I also suspect a Performance AWD will be highly competitive with the S. What it might lack in motor power, it makes up with less weight.

I understand the 3 is the mass future, but the S (and X) got them there. Keeping them (and their margins) stagnant would be a big mistake. They have people waiting to pay $150,000 for P100Ds, sitting on the sidelines because--for example--the center display processor is from 2011 and it's slower than a $35,000 Model 3. That's ridiculous.

I really didn't expect the 3 to be so comparable to the S, hence my concern as more people drive them and compare the two.

Totally agree with you! And I wish they would add 360 view when parking. Around where we live there are curbs and narrow parking garages all over the place. We've driven our Model S now for several years but I still sweat bullets in tight parking situations especially where there are low curbs that I can't see.

It's disappointing that they are letting the Model S languish in technology and interior design.