Model S range and interior update imminent?

[whitex]

I seriously doubt they will make EAP/FSD a standard feature and add the cost to the car. Notice that they revised the cost of the P100D DOWN because they realized that they overpriced the car when a full-equipped model started approaching $160K. The Model S base prices will no go up any further and will only come down as costs come down and there is competition. At the moment they have almost no competition. This will change in a year or two.

So, please stop worrying about EAP/FSD becoming a feature you have to pay for in the form of it becoming a standard feature at a higher base cost.

As for Elon's Tweet:

He said quite clearly the car will eventually find you. Notice there is no time frame there.

So when Tesla eventually releases the promised features for AP, then your car will eventually find you

As long as time exists, there is still time to deliver what was promised.

Yep I know the drill. I bought Elon's "almost 700hp car" hype, which was speced at 691hp, only to learn later, once my car was no longer in production so they wouldn't hurt any new car sales, that the car's power is battery limited to 463hp on its best day.

Just wait until AP3 is announced, then maybe Tesla will come clean on the limitations such as (if you hit summon across the country, it till take up to a few billion years for the car to find you, at worst when the sun goes supernova and yours and your cars remains will fuse together, hence the summon will be complete).

 

[P85Dave]

Yep I know the drill. I bought Elon's "almost 700hp car" hype, which was speced at 691hp, only to learn later, once my car was no longer in production so they wouldn't hurt any new car sales, that the car's power is battery limited to 463hp on its best day.

I bet our P85Ds generate 691hp when going down a really steep hill so that figure is technically correct

 

[whitex]

I bet our P85Ds generate 691hp when going down a really steep hill so that figure is technically correct

Hill may help acceleration, it does nothing for car's power generation (even a car generating 0 power will accelerate down-hill).

 

[P85Dave]

Hill may help acceleration, it does nothing for car's power generation (even a car generating 0 power will accelerate down-hill).

When you are going downhill, you ARE generating power at the axle as that's what charges the battery so you add that power to the max output of a P85D and you get your 691 HP. This makes me very happy so don't mess up my happiness by telling me otherwise.

As long as I'm going downhill and time exists, no promise is broken and there is no non Tesla car that is better or I'd rather own. At the end of the day, we can be grateful that we are driving the future, even if we have an older P85D as the auto industry would not have built such a car for another 15-20 years if not for Tesla.

 

[whitex]

When you are going downhill, you ARE generating power at the axle as that's what charges the battery so you add that power to the max output of a P85D and you get your 691 HP. This makes me very happy so don't mess up my happiness by telling me otherwise.

As long as I'm going downhill and time exists, no promise is broken and there is no non Tesla car that is better or I'd rather own. At the end of the day, we can be grateful that we are driving the future, even if we have an older P85D as the auto industry would not have built such a car for another 15-20 years if not for Tesla.

Adding a negative number (charging) to positive (accelerating) doesn't make the number bigger, but hey, it sounds like you have it figured out in your head to make you happy and it sounds a little fragile so let's leave it at that. Tesla makes great cars, just don't trust anything Elon says will happen in the future because his "future" is defined only as "not before now" and even if the stuff does happen, chances are it will not happen to your car (P100D I think comes close to the 691hp). This is why I don't want to pay for EAP or FSD. Will write Tesla a check for the upgrade once I can summon across the continent. Sadly one of out MS was busted by a DUI driver recently so I will likely have to buy a replacement, and it's already over $3K more expensive, so I don't want to see any more "option packages to increase gross margin".

 

[MarkS22]

There will clearly not be any big overhauls for the X/S during 2017. The incremental improvements will continue. Tesla will focus on pushing for X/S by expanding to new markets where sales will be a non issue. For existing markets they will accept a decline in incoming orders for X/S. Full focus on Model 3 ramp.

It just not an option to increase capex for bigger X/S improvements. That will just be a big negative at the end of the day.

Those who waited for the "big change" probably got to wait another year...

If true, I believe this will go down as another misstep. Maybe they should’ve focused on automobiles before, for example, purchasing Solar City if they can’t refresh a center console’s 7 year old GPU on a (top end) $145,000 car that enabled them to make the Model 3 in the first place.

They’re in the middle of production hell with major delays, preparing a Model Y, and a Semi, and a new Roadster. The S desperately needs a refresh in comparison to the 3. Autopilot is 2 years behind. And now the app is cluttered with Solar Panel ads and they’re renting out sections of Home Depot to sell panels and batteries to contractors. How is that not a major red flag?

They need razor focus on their bread and butter.

 

[henderrj]

I agree with your observation, and this surprises me...perhaps the biggest surprise of today's release IMO. One way to ensure lack of cannibalization of S by 3 is to get the S range extended materially...presumably via the newer form factor. I can only conclude they need all of the new production batteries for 3.

As we discussed here, Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon. it's the chemistry more than the form factor where the greatest gains will be made. We can still, I believe, see 200 kWh in an S with 18650s.

 

[brkaus]

These are terrific examples of improvements that can (will?) be made incrementally, just has occurred for the past many years. A major downside to Tesla revealing a big design change for Model S is they would instantly frustrate tens of thousands of very recent buyers of that model. Reminds me of when they changed the nose...many embraced the 'classic' look but many others were frustrated at just having bought a car that was suddenly the 'outdated' nose.

When they get the 3 ramped, they can afford to better Telegraph changes.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

I'm just glad I bought at a sweet spot. Ordered on 12/16/16, upgraded to 100D on 1/21/17, picked up on 3/23/17. The only changes since then have been AP 2.5 and some options grouping which might have saved me $1500. After researching the Model S for 3 years before buying, I think this is the longest stretch I've seen without any major changes, and frankly, that was my biggest concern in pulling the trigger back in December of last year. If they make some major changes in the near future, I'm not going to wallow in regret. Yeah!

 

[FlatSix911]

Yep I know the drill. I bought Elon's "almost 700hp car" hype, which was speced at 691hp, only to learn later, once my car was no longer in production so they wouldn't hurt any new car sales, that the car's power is battery limited to 463hp on its best day.

Just wait until AP3 is announced, then maybe Tesla will come clean on the limitations such as (if you hit summon across the country, it till take up to a few billion years for the car to find you, at worst when the sun goes supernova and yours and your cars remains will fuse together, hence the summon will be complete).

When you are going downhill, you ARE generating power at the axle as that's what charges the battery so you add that power to the max output of a P85D and you get your 691 HP. This makes me very happy so don't mess up my happiness by telling me otherwise.

As long as I'm going downhill and time exists, no promise is broken and there is no non Tesla car that is better or I'd rather own. At the end of the day, we can be grateful that we are driving the future, even if we have an older P85D as the auto industry would not have built such a car for another 15-20 years if not for Tesla.

Actual Power and Torque values for the Model S are listed below ... Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

 

[FlatSix911]

As we discussed here, Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon. it's the chemistry more than the form factor where the greatest gains will be made. We can still, I believe, see 200 kWh in an S with 18650s.

From the Tesla Fourth Quarter & Full Year 2017 Update

2018 will be a transformative year for Tesla, with a high level of operational scaling. As we ramp production of both Model 3 and our
energy products while keeping tight control of operating expenses, our quarterly operating income should turn sustainably positive at
some point in 2018.We expect Model S and Model X deliveries to be approximately 100,000 in total, constrained by the supply of cells with the old 18650 form factor.
As our sales network continues to expand to new markets in 2018, we believe orders should continue to grow. With demand outpacing production, we plan to optimize the options mix in order to maximize gross margin. As stated above, we continue to target a weekly Model 3 production rate of 2,500 by the end of Q1 and 5,000 by the end of Q2. Also, we are focused on achieving our target of 25% gross margin for Model 3 after our production stabilizes at 5,000 cars per week.​

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The 18650s in Model S/X can also simply be explained by the Gigafactory ramp-up issues, though. It seems less likely Tesla would want to endanger the Model 3 ramp-up by moving cells/packs to Model S/X, until they are getting sufficient numbers of them for Model 3?

We already have the past rumor that the Model S/X refresh (dash, battery) was delayed to late 2018. It still seems quite plausible to me that 21-70s were at least planned for Model S/X in 2018, but whether delays affect them for the whole year seems unknown.

 

[whitex]

Actual Power and Torque values for the Model S are listed below ... Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

View attachment 278774

You are right Mr. Monday Night Quarterback. The numbers are out there TODAY, but those numbers were not known until after P90D was released and Tesla finally came clean on the P85D numbers.

For those who have not been with Tesla that long, here is a sneak peak how Tesla marketing works. The only spec when ordering P85D is shown below. Note how the hp is listed the same across all the models (so is the 0-60 even though it turned out later that the P85D, and only the P85D result was using a 3ft rollout while the others did not, making it look like the car is full 2.0s faster than 85D, which it was not).

Then JB tried to give people one BS excuse: Tesla All Wheel Drive (Dual Motor) Power and Torque Specifications

Then finally, Tesla came clean as they got sued in Europe:

Bottom line, they made it look like for $25K you get a 2.0s faster 0-60mph car with 315hp more than 85D, but in reality it was a less than 1.0s faster car (since 85D number is without rollout) with barely 26hp extra (less than 1/10 of what they deceived people to think). They hid it well for a while too, telling us how the P85D is not producing full power just yet but it will soon via the over the air update that never came. This was in the Design Studio Order Page:

Sound familiar? Yep, FSD description contains even more legal CYA than this. Oh, I also know what you will argue. If there was any update that made the P85D faster by a billionth of a nano-second 0-60, then they met the letter of their update promise. Agreed, this is why I say if summoned car takes 4 billion years to find you, they met the letter of their FSD commitment. It takes 1000 years to start moving by the way and if you die during that 1000 years, summon is cancelled for safety reasons (no need to meet a dead person).

PS> Did you notice 85KWh battery spec? That also turned out to be 81KWh total, 77KWh usable, so another example of Tesla marketing - they will round up numbers like 81 to 85. Here even 85D owners got duped.


Anyhow, these are the facts. Make your own judgement whether this is genius Elon marketing or total deception.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

The screen definitely needs and update, with the Model 3 screen being more fluid to use.

I also like the auto closing doors of the Model X and how the wood trim wraps around the door... Would also like some door pockets where I can stow a small umbrella and a couple of other small items, especially when traveling.

I am 100% sure that we will see the Model S update before Porsche releases the Mission E.

Yea good point. I suppose I should have included "more storage and better cupholders" is probably better than more cowbell (at least for now)

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Forget S/X redesign, just save up for the new Roadster...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Forget S/X redesign, just save up for the new Roadster...

How about: Enjoy your current Tesla and worry about new ones once they are on sale? I know I do.

It is proper winter-time now, e.g. for me XP100D sure is fun sliding around in snow... that tail is almost RWD wiggly at times...

Still, got to keep on researching the rumors of course...

 

[P85Dave]

How about: Enjoy your current Tesla and worry about new ones once they are on sale? I know I do.

It is proper winter-time now, e.g. for me XP100D sure is fun sliding around in snow... that tail is almost RWD wiggly at times...

Still, got to keep on researching the rumors of course...

So when do you think the refresh is coming out?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

So when do you think the refresh is coming out?

I don't know, but I've made a rather long-winded comment recently - as I tend to - there is sort of an answer somewhere in that post... maybe:

Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD post #56

 

[P85Dave]

I don't know, but I've made a rather long-winded comment recently - as I tend to - there is sort of an answer somewhere in that post... maybe:

Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD post #56

That is really insightful and thanks for putting that all together! You need to do better though. We need exact dates for all the updates so we can plan ahead

You can add me to the list of people disappointed with the lack of love for the Model S and the interior essentially unchanged since 2012 so we are waiting for an interior refresh before we replace our P85D. I hope they at least start releasing piecemeal updates so that over the months they will add to something significant.

I know for sure we would want the new display and vent design before we order.

 

[K-MTG]

I would rather have an ultra-lux Model S (instead of the new roadster)...but I would rather have the roadster than the current Model S.