Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[Destiny1701]

Not really. I doubt anyone would expect the S to clock the faster time. I could design a PR release that says something to the effect of: The 2019 Tesla Model S Raven Performance took on Porsche's new electric Taycan and came in second. By four seconds. But the Taycan lost to the Model S by $50,000. What's four seconds worth to you?

Funny problem is one could ask the same question for 0-60...’what’s 2 seconds worth to you??’ Ie. 75D to P100D...4.4 sec to 2.3 sec for $50k. Lol.

I agree it may not be abt clocking a faster time as much abs showing the world that Tesla’s can compete on track in some fashion. Followed by 30+ laps for range and one lap driven by FSD on the new V10 software and one lap driven with a family of 5 with luggage lol

 

[idleuser]

Funny problem is one could ask the same question for 0-60...’what’s 2 seconds worth to you??’ Ie. 75D to P100D...4.4 sec to 2.3 sec for $50k. Lol.

I agree it may not be abt clocking a faster time as much abs showing the world that Tesla’s can compete on track in some fashion. Followed by 30+ laps for range and one lap driven by FSD on the new V10 software and one lap driven with a family of 5 with luggage lol

Not really the same comparison at all... you get more range and speed for 50k..

 

[nativewolf]

Obviously a certain percentage of Tesla owners do care about the performance of the car otherwise ludicrous upgrades wouldn’t have been sold for a 20k premium. Every Tesla has it’s 0-60 stats posted so Elon clearly thinks that’s important to the consumer. I love my P100DL but it handles like a boat... it’d be cool to see a true performance version of the MS, not just a one trick pony. A time remotely close to the Taycan would be a great accomplishment and validate the performance capabilities of the car.

I agree with your initial statement in whole. Tesla did tout the 0-60 speeds and it was a big deal to have a fast car be electric. So, agree. It Handles like a boat...don't agree. There is a great reason to have fast 0-60 speeds because it is directly aligned with the need for battery power management ..which is strategically important. That's all. There is no strategic need for super crazy porsche/bmw/ferrari type handling abilities. Those sort of handling characteristics slow car development, in the time it took Porsche to make this car Tesla launched 2 new models and went from 25% of porsche sales to surpassing them. Why? Because of that sort of engineering, it is why there are no great German internet companies, no great computer companies and only a couple of decent computer hardware companies, no great software languages. If you like great great driving cars then sure, a Porsche is going to be a great car. If you see a need to change the world and appreciate innovation then sure, buy anything but a German car. Don't even get me started on VW and the ilk.

 

[Valore]

When is this Nürburgring thing going down?

 

[nativewolf]

In fact Tesla should continue to just tout 0-60 speeds as the only thing that matters. Because for a real electric car endeavor that is the only stat that is remotely useful to making a better vehicle.

 

[ucmndd]

In fact Tesla should continue to just tout 0-60 speeds as the only thing that matters. Because for a real electric car endeavor that is the only stat that is remotely useful to making a better vehicle.

 

[MP3Mike]

also it has to be a production car none of the facy suspension/brakes/tyres/ all the seats/aircon etc still intact otherwise its a joke not a comparison.

I personally think it is fine to replace the tires/brake pads. Just like if they were an option anyone can buy them and put them on themselves. Stripping the car or making major modifications are a different story.

 

[dk10438]

In fact Tesla should continue to just tout 0-60 speeds as the only thing that matters. Because for a real electric car endeavor that is the only stat that is remotely useful to making a better vehicle.

gonna have to disagree
0-60 isn't really an important metric since dragging from a stoplight isn't that important in everyday driving. However, it is used by all car mags and most manufacturers so it's useful for comparing cars and it is a surrogate for 40-70 which IMO is more valuable from a daily driving standpoint since this represents passing speed on the highway.

 

[204EV]

Guys, the car has to be stock to beat the Porsche. You can't modify the firmware or change the breaks, tires and suspension. Stock Vs. Stock like it was bought new. If you could modify it then it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

The Car they used is FAR from stock. Go watch the video, full roll cage, no interior, guaranteed track tires/brakes, and extra Aero.

 

[ucmndd]

I personally think it is fine to replace the tires/brake pads. Just like if they were an option anyone can buy them and put them on themselves. Stripping the car or making major modifications are a different story.

Agree. I’m totally fine with swapping out wheels/tires/pads.This is what the vast majority of people who track their DDs do. I love me a set of fresh MXM4s but it’s foolish to use them as a measure of track potential.

 

[cduzz]

I personally think it is fine to replace the tires/brake pads. Just like if they were an option anyone can buy them and put them on themselves. Stripping the car or making major modifications are a different story.

Manufacturers can always make an artificial specification and then beat the world based on that spec;

I suspect the S has a better attack angle

It may have a deeper fording depth

The Taycan has better hang-time

The porsche may also have really enormous ball-joints, you know, to cope with loads and stuff

None of these metrics actually matter to anyone.

 

[idoco]

Thanks @bonnie for pointing this tweet and comments out:

"There has been so much talk about “official” Nuerbergring Lap Times I checked their site and couldn’t find the Taycan listed https://nuerburgring.de/en/fans-info/info/record-drives-lap-times-nuerburgring.html… So I wrote to the them and got a this response “As the record is not listed on our website I can confirm that it is not official.”"

JE on Twitter

 

[bhzmark]

in the time it took Porsche to make this car Tesla launched 2 new models and went from 25% of porsche sales to surpassing them.

excellent point.

from a stoplight isn't that important in everyday driving.

wha?!

 

[PhantomX]

Those sort of handling characteristics slow car development, in the time it took Porsche to make this car Tesla launched 2 new models and went from 25% of porsche sales to surpassing them.

Sure, Porsche only launched one production EV in this time period. However, they have also launched new Macan, new Panamera, new Cayenne, new 718 Cayman GT4 and Boxster Speedster, and new 911's. All of them tested and developed using Ring as the development path.

On top of that, they established the record for fastest record ever on the Ring and a top time at Spa. Also, they have built the Formula E race car/team and started to prepare for next season.

And lastly, they remain one of the most profitable companies in the automotive world.

 

[wenkan]

Thanks @bonnie for pointing this tweet and comments out:

"There has been so much talk about “official” Nuerbergring Lap Times I checked their site and couldn’t find the Taycan listed https://nuerburgring.de/en/fans-info/info/record-drives-lap-times-nuerburgring.html… So I wrote to the them and got a this response “As the record is not listed on our website I can confirm that it is not official.”"

JE on Twitter

So what I read this is Taycan’s lap was also done during industry pool. Comparing the start and finish of Taycan’s onboard video vs ID.R’s you can see the difference. So the good news is Tesla should also do the same test and post a comparable onboard video. The bad news is Taycan is not so slow, should subtract 5-7s from 7:42 which makes it to the same level as panamera turbo and M5.

 

[larmor]

So what I read this is Taycan’s lap was also done during industry pool. Comparing the start and finish of Taycan’s onboard video vs ID.R’s you can see the difference. So the good news is Tesla should also do the same test and post a comparable onboard video. The bad news is Taycan is not so slow, should subtract 5-7s from 7:42 which makes it to the same level as panamera turbo and M5.

IF the Taycan made that lap and recorded was race prepped, ie interior removed, then tesla should go all out and smash this record. Get some serious brakes, and pull out the frunk liner...

 

[PhantomX]

Perhaps the best test would be for Horst von Saurma or Christian Gebhardt to grab a production Taycan and a Model S from the showroom, and do their typical Sport Auto Nurburgring run. That way, you can guarantee both cars are the same as those that anyone can purchase from the showroom.

 

[Destiny1701]

Bottom line guys...whatever the result, I’m not paying 185k for an EV that has less range and power and can’t ferry my kids to soccer, pick up groceries and fit all our luggage on a local trip to the cottage...and with autopilot...all in one beautiful package.

Anyone see the new Merc concept today? Ok so...wow. If it’s even 80% of concept at production, it’s a winner.

https://electrek.co/2019/09/10/mercedes-benz-eqs-electric-sedan-concept/

 

[SmartElectric]

i doubt the raven has lost at least 800lbs to make it agile/stiff enough to compete

Kerb weight 2,358.7 kg (5,200.0 lb)
Ref: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki › Porsche_Taycan

vs P100D 2,250 kg

P100D is 100kG lighter.

Then again, Porsche took a pre-prod car with roll cage and race seats for their run, so who really knows what the weight and configuration of the Porsche was in terms of comparison with the cars Tesla has running on the track this week.

 

[SmartElectric]

It does have roll cage and it was a pre-production car, since production car is just rolling off the line now. However, I am willing to bet the time of 7:42 can be repeated by a very good Ring driver using a car from showroom with proper set of options that are available in the builder page.

If you've watched the video, the Taycan driver was taking chances with corners and speeds that may not be suitable for a non-roll cage car. One bad mistake ...

Recall Sabine's lap in the Ford Transit, it was balls-out nuts, and she commented that it was life threatening to even try one more time.