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More than 1,000 U.S. Signatures (confirmed)
- Thread starter brianman
- Start date
If Tesla is saying there is 1200 North American Sigs and they are , as the rumor goes, allowing leftover Canadian Sigs to be bought by US customers. Why wouldn't they allow Zapped, a Canadian Sig reservation holder to convert his Canadian Sig to a US Sig. The only thing that makes sense is that he/she can't because the 1000 US Sigs are already spoken for. Not positive proof but certainly circumstantial evidence that the rumor is just a rumor.
Hardly. I can think of a number of reasons. Changing the market of a reservation is a new concept, and there are many reasons why that is undesirable and potentially legally problematic for Tesla.
Once again, as previously noted, it's more than a "rumor" when it's confirmed by a Tesla rep as part of an official response to a direct question. See updated initial post.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
What would be the legal argument? No loss in line, no loss in value, no bait and switch (your deposit is fully refundable). No promise was made to only be 1000 in your reservation agreement.
I confess that I have been trying to understand your pov, because I find your posts to be reasonable. But I just don't get this.
I confess that I have been trying to understand your pov, because I find your posts to be reasonable. But I just don't get this.
Part of the Signature "sales pitch" was that it was limited to N in your market. After MVPA, $10k becomes non-refundable. Post-MVPA, the N changed.
The legal argument would come into play if you were prevented from downgrading to non-Signature after signing the MVPA without losing some amount of your deposit. As noted, I don't plan to go that route.
I'm not clear what's hard to 'get'.
mnx
2018 M3P
If that start selling Model S sigs on Mars man are you going to be pissed... :biggrin:
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Do you think that makes your car worth less (even with all the posts re Roadster value)?
mnx
2018 M3P
So you are annoyed simply because Tesla said 1000 and now that # could potentially be 1001 or something like 1032?
That actually makes sense. For a while I thought yourself and Joefree were annoyed because your Model S's resale value was effected by 10 cents.
As I interpreted them, those posts were about resale value. I wasn't speaking to resale value. I was speaking to something more general like "historical value". Part of what makes the Model S compelling is that it might literally be the turning point for the automobile industry. Perhaps I'm romanticizing it too much perhaps not. But, along that line of thought, the historical value of the Model S -- and in particular subsets of the Model S, like Signature and Founder's -- have inherent value in a historical sense, regardless of resale value. Think museum value rather than blackmarket value.
So yes, in that sense dilution by growing the number above 1,000 has an impact on value.
"But but...other markets". Look forward twenty years on an optimistic timeline: "Tesla created a new U.S. car company when people said they couldn't. They did it with a technology shift that people said wasn't viable." Do you think a Signature vehicle in the U.S. market has more historical value than one in any other market? I do.
I don't expect people to agree, but I'm surprised it's difficult to understand.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Difficult to understand how misled you seem to feel - but we can agree to disagree and move on.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Well you seem to be upset about the possible minor degradation of some theoretical historical importance if an extra 30 or so cars are marked for sale in the US instead of Canada. It just seems like hair splitting in the extreme, (probably tied to the irrational human tendency to favor numbers that end in zero, our base ten bias). Would you have not been on board in the beginning if Tesla had said there would be 1032 US only cars produced?
That makes even less sense. I would think any 'historical' value would be even less concerned with how many had been built in the USA and how many in Canada. In addition, you are worrying about some imagined loss of historical value which may not even happen. Last I heard there only 15 Canadian SSL slots left and we have over 3 weeks to go in Sept.
By the time the cars are old enough to be valuable, they will be able to cross the border freely, so it won't make any difference if the car was sold in the U.S. or in Canada.
Would I have reserved Signature? Probably not. I would have seen 1032 as a number they'll likely fudge (just like the "7...scratch that 30..oh wait...40+" founders number has been fudged) and that would have weighed into my decision about the value of the Signature offering.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Fair enough, though it does point out my "base ten bias" theory, since 1000 has no more inherent resistance to "fudging" than 1032.
Right there with you Brian, dilution in this space is key to long term value and believe it's a qualitative measure in the short term
So you're at Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance in 2018 and display your Sig. Bystanders wow the color. You toss in "well yes, only 1000 of these were made for U.S."
"Oh look at this," says one visitor and points to another Model S with a signature batch reading:
TESLA Model S Signature U.S.
Vehicle 1032 of 1000
I can see how that would give you a sour feeling.
"Oh look at this," says one visitor and points to another Model S with a signature batch reading:
TESLA Model S Signature U.S.
Vehicle 1032 of 1000
I can see how that would give you a sour feeling.
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