Vendor MPP At Global Time Attack Superlap With A P3D! Nov 8/9

[JeffC]

The RWD cars are allowed 285 tires all around, so maybe a super lightweight LR car with fender flares would be the hot setup

@MountainPass's testing at his home track seemed to indicate that traction at the front was the most lacking due to insufficient camber (and a lack of camber adjustment). Lacking camber adjustment he put wide tires up front and seemed to have better results. Due to the relatively balanced chassis on Model 3, wide rears and narrow fronts may not be as much of an advantage as on other cars and may understeer a lot. YMMV.

Whoops I misread your original post and saw 285 rears. 285 all around should stick like glue.

And yes, strip out everything to get the weight down.

And since engine mods are allowed put the P motor and controller in back. But then "hybrids" are not allowed to modify the motor, battery, controller, so maybe that would not pass tech inspection or would get a tech protest.

 

[MountainPass]

Like the BRZ that won the RWD class? It was probably running similar power to the STIs.

We are going to try, but we are concerned that we just won't be able to get enough power to compete with them.

I know this has been mentioned a lot but I would totally invest into my RWD if there was a track mode with traction control disabled.

Just waiting patiently....

Why do I feel like this is directed at us

 

[Daniel in SD]

Whoops I misread your original post and saw 285 rears. 285 all around should stick like glue.

And yes, strip out everything to get the weight down.

And since engine mods are allowed put the P motor and controller in back. But then "hybrids" are not allowed to modify the motor, battery, controller, so maybe that would not pass tech inspection or would get a tech protest.

I think the P probably has the same rear power as the RWD. It's only 50% more powerful so it seems likely that all the additional power comes from the front motor.

 

[mobilesuit818]

We are going to try, but we are concerned that we just won't be able to ge

Why do I feel like this is directed at us

Not directing..more like wishing for the moon.

Not sure if any type of "hack" would be legal for the RWD but the P3D+ guys shouldnt be having all the fun...

 

[Daniel in SD]

Not sure if any type of "hack" would be legal for the RWD but the P3D+ guys shouldnt be having all the fun...

Stability control defeat devices are allowed in all SCCA autocross classes now. I don't see anything disallowing it in the Global Time Attack rules either.

 

[JeffC]

I think the P probably has the same rear power as the RWD. It's only 50% more powerful so it seems likely that all the additional power comes from the front motor.

Looks like you're right if the EPA filings Electrek found are correct. LR and P have 211 kw rear motors. AWD has 188 kw rear motor. P and AWD add a 147 kw front motor. Apparently all of the power is not available at the same time. 147 kw at the front would be a lot.

Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor and Performance versions get official EPA ratings

Therefore LR could be a good choice for a RWD race car.

 

[Cheburashka]

This is the problem with the f'ing chicken *sugar* society we live in today...
You get beat by better competition, accept your whoopin' like a real man & come back better prepped for next time.
But no, you'd rather protest & get them DQ'd

Big ups to @MountainPass and @Odiemac for whooping ass on that coward...

As far as I understand, MPP was told ahead of time that they are running in an event which they are not qualified for and was offered to run in the Unlim class, which MPP declined.

The organizers of the event were nice enough to let them run in the event regardless of the rules and let MPP on the podium for a bit, yet you are ragging on them?

Sad!

 

[mcbarnet007]

As far as I understand, MPP was told ahead of time that they are running in an event which they are not qualified for and was offered to run in the Unlim class, which MPP declined.

The organizers of the event were nice enough to let them run in the event regardless of the rules and let MPP on the podium for a bit, yet you are ragging on them?

Sad!

There was an actual protest by one of the participant. They were not given advanced notice before the event about the fuel qualification.

 

[mcbarnet007]

Also, I think the podium bit is previously agreed upon on both sides in order to gain more publicity for both EV and time attack. The videos probaly drove a ton of traffic for GTA than usual. They only came out after 4 days or so to clarify about the event so they don't seem anti EV. They also made it clear that they intend to welcome EV, just that this year's rule was written with a loophole by accident for ICE car to protest

 

[Gavyne]

As far as I understand, MPP was told ahead of time that they are running in an event which they are not qualified for and was offered to run in the Unlim class, which MPP declined.

The organizers of the event were nice enough to let them run in the event regardless of the rules and let MPP on the podium for a bit, yet you are ragging on them?

Sad!

You are referring to the jalopnik's article which is full of false information. You should read it again, especially at the end of the article where they made "corrections".

Here's MPP's response on another forum:

"Yeah, this is some real quality reporting by Jalopnik. What they have posted is sadly categorically false and bordering on slander. We're working to resolve. Even the updates they posted acknowledging the article is wrong were posted at the bottom and do not offer an apology as to why they wrote an article like that without the proper facts in the first place!

Really disappointing that this wonderful California trip is being ruined by what is effectively tabloid media for cars."

Bottom line, they were not told ahead of the time that they are not qualified. They were offered to go to Unlimited class with 1 last session left on the 2nd day.

 

[insaneoctane]

Track mode is a great start. If Elon really wants to remove the "halo" effect of ICE then offer track mode to RWD too. With just a few tuning options the tables can start to turn now and the 2020 roadster can be an exclamation point!

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Looks like you're right if the EPA filings Electrek found are correct. LR and P have 211 kw rear motors. AWD has 188 kw rear motor. P and AWD add a 147 kw front motor. Apparently all of the power is not available at the same time. 147 kw at the front would be a lot.

Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor and Performance versions get official EPA ratings

Therefore LR could be a good choice for a RWD race car.

I've read over and over that M3D and M3DP have the same part number for their motors yet that link indicates different rear motor for the AWD vs. RWD and P.

What's the real story?

Edit- Read the whole article and it does say they have same motors

According to CEO Elon Musk, the Model 3 Performance version features the same motors (AC in the front and permanent magnet in the rear) as the dual version, but they are picking the highest rated ones with double the burn-in process to make sure they can handle a higher output.

Potentially if the figures in that article are correct it indicates that indeed AWD is just a detuned P. Also evinced by Tesla flashing AWD cars to P when P customers were delivered a AWD car by mistake.

/Hijack.

If anything it just shows all the more how Tesla could roll out two more track modes one for AWD and one for RWD to go along with the P.

 

[e-FTW]

You are referring to the jalopnik's article which is full of false information. You should read it again, especially at the end of the article where they made "corrections".

Here's MPP's response on another forum:

"Yeah, this is some real quality reporting by Jalopnik. What they have posted is sadly categorically false and bordering on slander. We're working to resolve. Even the updates they posted acknowledging the article is wrong were posted at the bottom and do not offer an apology as to why they wrote an article like that without the proper facts in the first place!

Really disappointing that this wonderful California trip is being ruined by what is effectively tabloid media for cars."

Bottom line, they were not told ahead of the time that they are not qualified. They were offered to go to Unlimited class with 1 last session left on the 2nd day.

Jalopnik has always had click-bait tendencies. I've been a reader for well over a decade, but they've lost a lot in the last few years.

 

[sreams]

I've read over and over that M3D and M3DP have the same part number for their motors yet that link indicates different rear motor for the AWD vs. RWD and P.

What's the real story?

Edit- Read the whole article and it does say they have same motors


Potentially if the figures in that article are correct it indicates that indeed AWD is just a detuned P. Also evinced by Tesla flashing AWD cars to P when P customers were delivered a AWD car by mistake.

/Hijack.

If anything it just shows all the more how Tesla could roll out two more track modes one for AWD and one for RWD to go along with the P.

Track mode uses the brakes quite a bit to direct torque. The non-performance brakes may be inadequate for this.

 

[mobilesuit818]

Track mode uses the brakes quite a bit to direct torque. The non-performance brakes may be inadequate for this.

There is an easy workaround
- Upgrade pads to non factory units
and/or -
- Upgrade Rotors to MPP units (front and rear)

As discussed previously, brakes dont stop a car, tires do, so tires would need to be upgraded.

What do you guys think about starting a GofundMe page to pay for the engineering time(Tesla) to get this pushed out for the Non P guys with the caveats noted above (brakes/tires/ off road only)??

 

[sreams]

There is an easy workaround
- Upgrade pads to non factory units
and/or -
- Upgrade Rotors to MPP units (front and rear)

As discussed previously, brakes dont stop a car, tires do, so tires would need to be upgraded.

What do you guys think about starting a GofundMe page to pay for the engineering time(Tesla) to get this pushed out for the Non P guys with the caveats noted above (brakes/tires/ off road only)??

I agree... Except that the computer would need to know what the aftermarket hardware can do in order to utilize it properly.

 

[mobilesuit818]

I agree... Except that the computer would need to know what the aftermarket hardware can do in order to utilize it properly.

Caveat would be upgraded braking system (better than stock RWD Factory) and if we can get a few beta testers with different hardware (RWD with upgraded pads/lines, RWD with upgraded rotors/pads)to vet it out then that would be awesome.

I seriously would think Elon would be more accepting of pushing the track mode to non P owner if there was a Gofundme page.

His twitter did specifically what changes would make your car better..

 

[JeffC]

There is an easy workaround
- Upgrade pads to non factory units
and/or -
- Upgrade Rotors to MPP units (front and rear)

As discussed previously, brakes dont stop a car, tires do, so tires would need to be upgraded.

What do you guys think about starting a GofundMe page to pay for the engineering time(Tesla) to get this pushed out for the Non P guys with the caveats noted above (brakes/tires/ off road only)??

While tires are critically important to the performance of a car, brakes do stop the car. Brakes stop the car by reducing the kinetic energy of motion by converting it to heat. It's brake fade due to overheating that prevents a race car from stopping over a longer time period than any short term tire contact patch overheating. (None of this applies on the street since brakes are not heated as much in typical street driving.)

Tires are the interface of that braking power to the road, and are critically important, but the braking power comes from the brakes and not the tires. To a relatively small extent (20%-30%), braking is provided by regenerative braking of the motors also, but that too is merely applied to the road by the tires. Tires are not the source of the regenerative braking either.

None of this is meant to reduce the importance of tires. Tires are critically important to the performance of any car.

While it's possible Tesla models the performance of the brakes into the stability control, more likely it would take advantage of any brake upgrades organically. The car's software should be able to detect brake fade when using the brakes for stability control. If the brakes fade less due to an upgrade, the stability control should continue to operate normally. (If the stability control detects brake fade and is therefore less able to stabilize the car, it would probably signal the car to cut performance overall, such as reducing motor power for acceleration. Brake fade would be easy to detect in software: unusually less deceleration output (or wheel speed reduction) per brake pressure input.)

 

[FlatSix911]

You are referring to the jalopnik's article which is full of false information. You should read it again, especially at the end of the article where they made "corrections". Here's MPP's response on another forum:

"Yeah, this is some real quality reporting by Jalopnik. What they have posted is sadly categorically false and bordering on slander. We're working to resolve. Even the updates they posted acknowledging the article is wrong were posted at the bottom and do not offer an apology as to why they wrote an article like that without the proper facts in the first place!

Really disappointing that this wonderful California trip is being ruined by what is effectively tabloid media for cars."

From the Jalopnik article... it looks like electric vehicles will be welcome at next years’ event.

“While we have never had any intention to disallow electric cars, there was a wording oversight that made them technically illegal in the lower classes,” he said. “This very first EV competitor made us realize it. We acknowledge the error and will be correcting it for next year.”

 

[pandam3]

I've read over and over that M3D and M3DP have the same part number for their motors yet that link indicates different rear motor for the AWD vs. RWD and P.

What's the real story?

Edit- Read the whole article and it does say they have same motors


Potentially if the figures in that article are correct it indicates that indeed AWD is just a detuned P. Also evinced by Tesla flashing AWD cars to P when P customers were delivered a AWD car by mistake.

/Hijack.

If anything it just shows all the more how Tesla could roll out two more track modes one for AWD and one for RWD to go along with the P.

This would be great marketing... a modern version of race on Sunday and commute to work Monday using just electricity.

I also think rwd has lots of potential. Tesla can bump up a little bit more power to the rear motor, push track mode to the rwd, and then ditch the frunk for a large cooling solution to allow the rear motor to run at higher power. Can even have a modified hood that allows air in through the lower intakes, directs to a large cooling solution, then extract out through the hood.

Hope Elon is watching the thread.