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MPP AWD/Performance Coilover Impression and Installation
- Thread starter beastmode13
- Start date
My front forks are coming today. Will be using this post as reference. Thanks for helping us.
Lowered my car by 5mm and 10mm front/back to get more negative camber. Front is 33mm with rear at 20mm. Both are now 5mm higher than MPP recommendation.
After the car is lowered, now I hear a some noise when the suspension is compressed. At my original install height, which were 10/15mm taller than MPP recommendation.
The noise will probably self correct over the next few days. If not, I’ll have MPP look at it at Laguna Seca.
After the car is lowered, now I hear a some noise when the suspension is compressed. At my original install height, which were 10/15mm taller than MPP recommendation.
The noise will probably self correct over the next few days. If not, I’ll have MPP look at it at Laguna Seca.
Lowered my car by 5mm and 10mm front/back to get more negative camber. Front is 33mm with rear at 20mm. Both are now 5mm higher than MPP recommendation.
After the car is lowered, now I hear a some noise when the suspension is compressed. At my original install height, which were 10/15mm taller than MPP recommendation.
The noise will probably self correct over the next few days. If not, I’ll have MPP look at it at Laguna Seca.
Try turning the spring perch down 1 turn then back up 1 turn. See you at Laguna!
Here are photos of the new height, 33/20mm, f/r.
Note, another M3 in the background.
Note, another M3 in the background.
Just want to thank you guys at MPP and @beastmode13 and post a few pictures and observations about the MPP Sports Coilover kit.
Needless to say, it was a long wait but it was well worth it. Finally got it on a couple of days ago, got it adjusted to the ride height that I'm happy with (a little over an inch lower front and rear – any more radical lowering is probably a bad idea in my area and with our driveways and other obstacles).
Pros:
1) extremely high quality kit overall – as high as any I've seen, which of course is not surprising given the KW origin. But still it's nice to open it and see such obviously high-quality pieces.
2) enormous range of both height and shock rebound/compression adjustment. The one caveat there however is that the replacement of the helper springs in the front suspension by an aluminum top column (Picture below) may make it harder for people to get more substantial lowering. Initially setting the front suspension for about an inch lower than the top setting (based on MPP's communication that the top setting was about stock ride height) resulted in the car actually being jacked up, relative to stock Ride height. We had to go pretty close to the bottom of the adjustment– maybe about a quarter of an inch from the bottom of the threaded column for the spring perch) to get to about an inch and a quarter of drop.
With this setting I was able to get to what for me is a perfect ride height – see next picture – but for guys tracking the car who want it almost scraping the pavement (or who love the slammed look!) it might make sense to use the helper springs rather than the top column and live with the possibility of some suspension noise– curious what Sasha and Jesse might say about this at MPP. I suspect there is a slight and perhaps unanticipated/unintended height difference between the newer aluminum column versus the original helper springs – perhaps MPP can revise the column height to rectify this? I have to confess I'm just guessing here and also that it's a bit surprising given that when visually you line the column up with the compressed helper springs it looks like there's really no difference at all or minimal. Maybe I'm missing something? But there's clearly some extra suspension height in this new arrangement.
I heard one initial adjustment "sprong" after install but then dead silence and no suspension noise at all after that presumably small bit of spring settling. There is absolutely no increase in small grainy road noise or road harshness and vibration. If anything it might be slightly better – although one has to be suspicious of the placebo effect here given how much I love this kit!
3) Reduced roll and weight shift front to rear as well, but without really any loss of ride comfort at the recommended 12 compression/10 rebound street setting. After a day or so at the 12/10 setting, I'm now running it at 10/8, which feels super firm and I probably wouldn't go any further than this on the street.
4) great support from MPP around any possible problems/issues.
Cons:
1) well, it ain't cheap, but it's a good to great value
2) long wait times, due to KW's (and not MPP's!) recalcitrance.
3) not much else as a con!
Adjusting the suspension is a little bit of a chore (you've got a jack the car up basically to get access to both compression and rebound at the rear and take off the 'frunk' cover to get access to rebound at the front) but I wouldn't say that's a knock on either KW or MPP because short of a factory system you're never going to be able to dial up suspension parameters from inside the car. I did have to cut away the rubber hat on top of the front shock column with a razor blade just to get access to the top front rebound adjustment – but this was really easy. I left a flap of rubber that can be easily pulled back to insert the adjustment knob but that provides a little bit of water sealing. One surprise was that even with the lowering of over an inch, I could not get to a full degree negative camber in the front. But I did get to -0.8 in the front and then (with their great Aluminum rear camber arms!) to 1.5 negative in the rear.
Overall take-home message – this is a great kit for people who like tweaking their cars even if they don't want to track them. And even though the stock suspension is set up as an almost ideal compromise between ride and handling, for a lot of us it's just a little bit too soft and rides about an inch too high. I strongly suspect that this was simply because Tesla was risk-averse to creating a suspension that would please the hard-core enthusiasts but perhaps lose the less radical buyer. The hard-core always has the coilover option!!
The MPP Sports coilover kit means that you can go pretty much from stock firmness to track hard settings relatively easily. Even set pretty soft (12/10) the car handles like it's on rails, and dialing up more firmness just increases the sense of 'lockdown' tracking. A final very strong benefit of getting this kit is the responsiveness of Sasha and Jesse to any and all concerns and their great integrity in standing behind their great products. We are all fortunate to have MPP in the Tesla enthusiast community!
Needless to say, it was a long wait but it was well worth it. Finally got it on a couple of days ago, got it adjusted to the ride height that I'm happy with (a little over an inch lower front and rear – any more radical lowering is probably a bad idea in my area and with our driveways and other obstacles).
Pros:
1) extremely high quality kit overall – as high as any I've seen, which of course is not surprising given the KW origin. But still it's nice to open it and see such obviously high-quality pieces.
2) enormous range of both height and shock rebound/compression adjustment. The one caveat there however is that the replacement of the helper springs in the front suspension by an aluminum top column (Picture below) may make it harder for people to get more substantial lowering. Initially setting the front suspension for about an inch lower than the top setting (based on MPP's communication that the top setting was about stock ride height) resulted in the car actually being jacked up, relative to stock Ride height. We had to go pretty close to the bottom of the adjustment– maybe about a quarter of an inch from the bottom of the threaded column for the spring perch) to get to about an inch and a quarter of drop.
With this setting I was able to get to what for me is a perfect ride height – see next picture – but for guys tracking the car who want it almost scraping the pavement (or who love the slammed look!) it might make sense to use the helper springs rather than the top column and live with the possibility of some suspension noise– curious what Sasha and Jesse might say about this at MPP. I suspect there is a slight and perhaps unanticipated/unintended height difference between the newer aluminum column versus the original helper springs – perhaps MPP can revise the column height to rectify this? I have to confess I'm just guessing here and also that it's a bit surprising given that when visually you line the column up with the compressed helper springs it looks like there's really no difference at all or minimal. Maybe I'm missing something? But there's clearly some extra suspension height in this new arrangement.
I heard one initial adjustment "sprong" after install but then dead silence and no suspension noise at all after that presumably small bit of spring settling. There is absolutely no increase in small grainy road noise or road harshness and vibration. If anything it might be slightly better – although one has to be suspicious of the placebo effect here given how much I love this kit!
3) Reduced roll and weight shift front to rear as well, but without really any loss of ride comfort at the recommended 12 compression/10 rebound street setting. After a day or so at the 12/10 setting, I'm now running it at 10/8, which feels super firm and I probably wouldn't go any further than this on the street.
4) great support from MPP around any possible problems/issues.
Cons:
1) well, it ain't cheap, but it's a good to great value
2) long wait times, due to KW's (and not MPP's!) recalcitrance.
3) not much else as a con!
Adjusting the suspension is a little bit of a chore (you've got a jack the car up basically to get access to both compression and rebound at the rear and take off the 'frunk' cover to get access to rebound at the front) but I wouldn't say that's a knock on either KW or MPP because short of a factory system you're never going to be able to dial up suspension parameters from inside the car. I did have to cut away the rubber hat on top of the front shock column with a razor blade just to get access to the top front rebound adjustment – but this was really easy. I left a flap of rubber that can be easily pulled back to insert the adjustment knob but that provides a little bit of water sealing. One surprise was that even with the lowering of over an inch, I could not get to a full degree negative camber in the front. But I did get to -0.8 in the front and then (with their great Aluminum rear camber arms!) to 1.5 negative in the rear.
Overall take-home message – this is a great kit for people who like tweaking their cars even if they don't want to track them. And even though the stock suspension is set up as an almost ideal compromise between ride and handling, for a lot of us it's just a little bit too soft and rides about an inch too high. I strongly suspect that this was simply because Tesla was risk-averse to creating a suspension that would please the hard-core enthusiasts but perhaps lose the less radical buyer. The hard-core always has the coilover option!!
The MPP Sports coilover kit means that you can go pretty much from stock firmness to track hard settings relatively easily. Even set pretty soft (12/10) the car handles like it's on rails, and dialing up more firmness just increases the sense of 'lockdown' tracking. A final very strong benefit of getting this kit is the responsiveness of Sasha and Jesse to any and all concerns and their great integrity in standing behind their great products. We are all fortunate to have MPP in the Tesla enthusiast community!
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I just heard something from KW. The adjustable compression/rebound on coilovers are “low frequency”, mainly about weight transfer in corners. The daily comfort is more about “high frequency” compression/rebound, which is not adjustable and not changing when you adjusting the low frequency ones.
If that’s true, what’s the disadvantage to run a super firm compression/rebound on street? @MountainPass
If that’s true, what’s the disadvantage to run a super firm compression/rebound on street? @MountainPass
I think what you're describing is the classic digressive shock concept. However my understanding is that both high-frequency and low-frequency damping is impacted by the adjustment knobs. I'd love to get confirmation on all this from Mountain Pass. I'm a bit out of my depth at this level of technical detail. In any case every adjustable shock system that I've ever run on any car that I've owned and that's been quite a few has shown quite a bit more around town firmness as you dial up stiffness. The Mountain Pass Sports coilover is for sure a lot stiffer on the street subjectively around small bumps and other road imperfections as you move towards the firmer settings on both compression and rebound. Perhaps MPP can clarify all this for us.
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I'm currently in the process of installing this MPP kit for a customer's vehicle.
Dfwatt, I've encountered the same issue with you; front jacked up high, rear was lowered. I found on the first post of this thread that the alignment dowel was ground down, I'm going to go back out to the shop & check if that's what's causing the issue with the front of his car being so high. I have about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of thread remaining on front shock body before the lower spring perch bottoms out but my concern is this: having the spring perch so low, doesn't that drastically effect spring rate?
I've installed many coil over kits on other vehicles & do a lot of alignments oriented towards road racing. Most other kits set pre-load, and then height is adjusted by adjusting shock body length. I'm concerned with dropping the lower perch in the front all the way down we are now losing spring tension. I'm going nuts over here, have just about every suspension component loose on my alignment rack thinking that some suspension component is applying pre-load but that's definitely not the case.
Dfwatt, I've encountered the same issue with you; front jacked up high, rear was lowered. I found on the first post of this thread that the alignment dowel was ground down, I'm going to go back out to the shop & check if that's what's causing the issue with the front of his car being so high. I have about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of thread remaining on front shock body before the lower spring perch bottoms out but my concern is this: having the spring perch so low, doesn't that drastically effect spring rate?
I've installed many coil over kits on other vehicles & do a lot of alignments oriented towards road racing. Most other kits set pre-load, and then height is adjusted by adjusting shock body length. I'm concerned with dropping the lower perch in the front all the way down we are now losing spring tension. I'm going nuts over here, have just about every suspension component loose on my alignment rack thinking that some suspension component is applying pre-load but that's definitely not the case.
usofrob
Member
On my Penske's (on my Lotus), I adjusted the compression to 'more stiff' and it helped not bottom out on big bumps (made it smoother) while making the normal road a little bit more rough. My suspicion is that it's not a binary switch, and every high speed bump has some component of a slow speed bump.
I don't believe that the spring perch height per se effects spring rate. The spring has to be compressed a certain amount by the roughly 1000 lbs it is carrying. That's constant. The only difference is where that several inches of compression places the overall suspension - the spring perch adjustment controls that.
The more I think about this though, the more puzzled I am. The difference between the aluminum top column and the helper spring can't be more than a half inch, but the suspension sure seems to think otherwise.
Compare that with the original helper spring, which sat on the bottom of the coil instead of the top - click this link below for the image.
https://i1.wp.com/www.mountainpassperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Front-Coilovers-Installed-With-Brakes.jpg?zoom=2.4750001430511475&resize=1080,675&ssl=1
It just doesn't add up? We are missing something here.
When the damper is seated correctly into the fork, the welded on stud will be almost touching or touching the bottom of the guiding slot. This is why you would need to clean up the weld around the stud so doesn't get in the way.
For sure. I'll have to check in the morning and see if the mechanic somehow missed that obvious piece of the instructions. I'm increasingly suspicious that that's the only possible way to explain the extra height in the system. If so ... ARGH!!!
This is something I noticed, the little alignment tit does have some excess welds along the bottom of it that's not letting the damper fully seat into the fork, it'll lower maybe another 1/8" though. Going to separate the fork from damper & grind away that excess. Currently I have the vehicle sitting at 14.5" at the rear, hub center to fender and the front, lowest I can get is around 14.75".
What's weird is that I test-seated that pin in the forks, no issues, but it appears that they didn't seat it fully down - but this accounts only for about 1/8th of an inch of ride height - and MPP said I should have used the stock top hat isolator bushing, which probably would have jacked it up even more than that, so I'm still puzzled about where the extra ride height is coming from?
Not sure if this is worth fixing? What do you think Beastmode?
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