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My Own Supercharger??

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I believe SCs are ten 10KW chargers in parallel. If a second 10KW charger on board is a $15,00 retail option then it would be logical to think SCs are about $15K retail per bay.

No, power systems don't scale like that. It's a single on-site transformer (likely owned by the power Co and leased to Tesla) that converts the AC on the service line to DC. That's then switched and fed straight into the Supercharger, which dumps it straight into the vehicle. That switches off the internal charger power rail to a dedicated rail (this is the Supercharger hardware) that feeds that into the batteries evenly and safely.

While it may seem economical to just hook up some parallel chargers, generally its easier, more reliable, and even cheaper to just run it through one giant transformer instead.
 
No, power systems don't scale like that. It's a single on-site transformer (likely owned by the power Co and leased to Tesla) that converts the AC on the service line to DC. That's then switched and fed straight into the Supercharger...

I don't think the power company provides DC to the Supercharger. I suspect it is industrial style 400-500V 3-phase AC. And the supercharger doesn't use "one big transformer", but instead of a big array of little switching power supplies working in parallel converting the AC to DC and adjusting the voltage to the needs of the pack being charged.

Yes, it would be probibitively expensive (if even possible) to bring that kind of grid power to a residential house in most parts of the USA.
Superchargers will likely only be found at commercial/industrial business locations.
 
Unless you have a lot of solar panels and batteries. If you're thinking grid, expensive isn't nearly a strong enough word.

I read recently that solar panels average about 1 kWh per *day* per square meter (at maximum sunlight). If that's true, then I don't think they would be very helpful for a SC. The article I read might have been out of date or even inaccurate. Anyone know better?
 
I don't think the power company provides DC to the Supercharger. I suspect it is industrial style 400-500V 3-phase AC. And the supercharger doesn't use "one big transformer", but instead of a big array of little switching power supplies working in parallel converting the AC to DC and adjusting the voltage to the needs of the pack being charged.

Yes, it would be probibitively expensive (if even possible) to bring that kind of grid power to a residential house in most parts of the USA.
Superchargers will likely only be found at commercial/industrial business locations.

I wouldn't say it's prohibitively expensive, as 90 kW is 375A. A 600A service would easily provide for that plus power for your home. It would require a transformer, feedline, and service equipment upgrade in most neighborhoods. Where I live, the PoCo would even supply all that for you, if your electrician hooks it up. In more established neighborhoods, though, the distribution system may not have enough oomph. That said, as has been pointed out, the utility of an SC at home isn't all that great.
 
No, power systems don't scale like that. It's a single on-site transformer (likely owned by the power Co and leased to Tesla) that converts the AC on the service line to DC. That's then switched and fed straight into the Supercharger, which dumps it straight into the vehicle. That switches off the internal charger power rail to a dedicated rail (this is the Supercharger hardware) that feeds that into the batteries evenly and safely.

While it may seem economical to just hook up some parallel chargers, generally its easier, more reliable, and even cheaper to just run it through one giant transformer instead.
Transformers don't convert AC to DC they only work with AC to convert one AC voltage to another.
 
I read recently that solar panels average about 1 kWh per *day* per square meter (at maximum sunlight). If that's true, then I don't think they would be very helpful for a SC. The article I read might have been out of date or even inaccurate. Anyone know better?
Actually, some of the Tesla Superchargers use solar panels. I think they must also be using a battery bank for storage, since they couldn't supply the current necessary for a 300mph charge rate. They may also tap the grid.
 
With solar panels what happens is during the day they feed your current use and the grid. At night or when the load is high during the day you use the grid and solar together. In the event of a power failure solar panels must go off also unless you have battery back up. The plan is to have enough solar panels to negate any grid usage. during the day I push to the house and grid and at night I am grid alone. I have a meter that reads what is given to the grid versus what I buy. They must pay me 100% of current rates for what I give the grid. You may not have solar generating capacity beyond 120% of usage and must also be licensed by the local Board of Public Utilities and I forget what else I had to go through. May depend on your area. I am providing 5.25 KwH at max sun about 20 to 25 KwH average daily. One time I got a utility bill of negative $5 which was credited to next month.
 
No, power systems don't scale like that. It's a single on-site transformer (likely owned by the power Co and leased to Tesla) that converts the AC on the service line to DC. That's then switched and fed straight into the Supercharger, which dumps it straight into the vehicle. That switches off the internal charger power rail to a dedicated rail (this is the Supercharger hardware) that feeds that into the batteries evenly and safely.

While it may seem economical to just hook up some parallel chargers, generally its easier, more reliable, and even cheaper to just run it through one giant transformer instead.
Lolachampcar is correct. See Tesla Supercharger network Elon Musk Founder of Tesla. The solar system is there to offset the cost of grid power, evidently.
 
With solar panels what happens is during the day they feed your current use and the grid. At night or when the load is high during the day you use the grid and solar together. In the event of a power failure solar panels must go off also unless you have battery back up. The plan is to have enough solar panels to negate any grid usage. during the day I push to the house and grid and at night I am grid alone. I have a meter that reads what is given to the grid versus what I buy. They must pay me 100% of current rates for what I give the grid. You may not have solar generating capacity beyond 120% of usage and must also be licensed by the local Board of Public Utilities and I forget what else I had to go through. May depend on your area. I am providing 5.25 KwH at max sun about 20 to 25 KwH average daily. One time I got a utility bill of negative $5 which was credited to next month.

How many square meters of panels do you have?
 
No, power systems don't scale like that. It's a single on-site transformer (likely owned by the power Co and leased to Tesla) that converts the AC on the service line to DC. That's then switched and fed straight into the Supercharger, which dumps it straight into the vehicle. That switches off the internal charger power rail to a dedicated rail (this is the Supercharger hardware) that feeds that into the batteries evenly and safely.

I an not an EE but my guess is superchargers do use the same chargers as I in the car. I would bet the 90kw supercharger is 9 units , 3 per phase. The 120kw future units mentiined by Tesla will be 12, 4 per phase.
 
I an not an EE but my guess is superchargers do use the same chargers as I in the car. I would bet the 90kw supercharger is 9 units , 3 per phase. The 120kw future units mentiined by Tesla will be 12, 4 per phase.

Chris is correct, except it's actually (12) of the standard 10KW DC chargers that are in the Model S, that's why Elon stated the maximum rate was 120KW for future vehicles. The are connected in banks of (3) to the incomming 3 phase service,to keep the utility load balanced, they can be switched in groups of (3), so 30KW, 60KW, 90KW and 120KW maximums. Hans talks about it in the New York Times article...

"The Supercharger is clever in its construction. It starts with the same 10-kilowatt charger that is onboard every Model S. To build the Supercharger, the company strings together 12 of the same units, which were designed from the beginning as building blocks."

On an Electric Highway, Charging Into the Future - NYTimes.com

The Supercharger hardware in the Model S consists of relays that allow switching the incomming connections from the charge port directly to the DC connections to the battery pack. It's heavy duty wiring and relays plus of course the logic to handle it.
 
Here is an interesting tidbit (titbit) that I picked up from the factory. The 120 Kw chargers are set up in pairs of two cables or charging places. The first one plugged in is designated as primary, and the 2nd is secondary. The primary will ramp up to full charging 90 Kw while the secondary will only be allowed the remainder until the primary begins to ramp down. Keep this in mind when using the charging locations, or choosing a spot to charge.
 
It is a novel use of the chargers, that's for sure. If used as described, it would be implemented with a 240V L-L delta configuration, it's the only way you could get a full 10 kW out of each charger without non-standard utility supply. That makes an assumption that each charger is rated 40A as well and isn't hobbled in the car.
 
aviators99 How many square meters of panels do you have?

I have roughly 15 x 25 foot section. 375 square foot or 34.8 square meters.

That's even lower production than the article I read. I don't think the panels at the Superchargers create any material value in the scope of the power the chargers will produce. They do have good PR value, though.

Also, it's great for your home!
 
Elon commented at one point that the economies of scale were starting to benefit them wrt the chargers, and that the hardware cost of a unit in a station was quite low, as it consisted of 12 ordinary Tesla chargers. No exact $$ figures were given though.

SolarCity installs and manages the solar arrays, and the assertion is made only that the total network's contribution will always exceed the demand of the Superchargers on the grid. It does not necessarily apply at any given location or moment in time. SolarCity profits from the excess (presumably enough to justify the installation of the arrays, overhead, etc.) Amongst other things, the additional hardware volume for SolarCity would help it achieve the "economies of scale" of which Elon is so fond. His rule of thumb is, IIRC, that a 10X increase in volume reduces unit cost by a factor of 2. I.e., 10X the units costs only 5X as much.
 
Chris is correct, except it's actually (12) of the standard 10KW DC chargers that are in the Model S, that's why Elon stated the maximum rate was 120KW for future vehicles. The are connected in banks of (3) to the incomming 3 phase service,to keep the utility load balanced, they can be switched in groups of (3), so 30KW, 60KW, 90KW and 120KW maximums. Hans talks about it in the New York Times article...

"The Supercharger is clever in its construction. It starts with the same 10-kilowatt charger that is onboard every Model S. To build the Supercharger, the company strings together 12 of the same units, which were designed from the beginning as building blocks."

On an Electric Highway, Charging Into the Future - NYTimes.com.

Well, take back everything I said, because I am just wrong wrong wrong :) I'll stop talking out my ass in the future :p
 
One thing that has me scratching my head about charging is this: If the supercharger option costs $2000 on the 60kWh and is included on all 85 kWh batteries-- what's the point of spending another $2700 on the HPWC and twin chargers, which essentially amount to an inferior charging option compared to the onboard supercharger?? The answer is of course is that you can't install a supercharger in your own home, and the technology will likely be extremely tightly controlled by Tesla. That seems like a bit of a waste and a shame to me. I'd like to be able to use the supercharger technology on my own-- and why not open up the technology to 3rd parties too? Seems like it would only increase the value of the car by opening up more and faster charging opportunities everywhere...

This is an interesting question. I also would like to know if Tesla will encourage, or even allow, third party charging stations to use their proprietary connector. Availability of third party DC fast chargers with the Tesla connector will allow a more robust charging network, and for it to be built faster.

Roadster owners have gotten together and bought HPCs, then convinced a business owner to install it at a location they can all use. Model S owners could do the same with HPWCs, but a 20 kW DC charger could be used by cars without the twin charger option. They would need the supercharging option, but this is a much more useful option to buy, in my opinion. DC chargers can connect to the three phase power available at businesses and provide a balanced load,and they can be sized at a power level that is economically available at the business, anywhere from 20 to 120 kW.

You could even install a single phase 20 kW DC charger in your garage instead of an HPWC. Friends can recharge at the max rate for their return trip, even if they don't have twin chargers.

GSP