New competition for Tesla, The Jaguar I-Pace

[vgrinshpun]

So, @arnis disagrees with my post above which is based on DATA PROVIDED BY MANUFACTURERS, Jaguar and Tesla. Obviously there is nothing to disagree about there.

What is it he disagrees with then? That comparing 0 to 60mph acceleration of the vehicles in different size segments, one more than a foot longer, 6.9 inches wider, 5 inches taller, 523lbs heavier and seating 2 more people could not be justified?

 

[vgrinshpun]

So once again what is it @arnis you are disagreeing with in yet another post of mine? and why?

 

[vgrinshpun]

@vgrinshpun
Well, if you compare X3 with X6, then actually, X3 has better headroom in the back, but overall,
cabin space is very similar. X6 is slightly elongated for better looks. But X3 has better cargo capacity.

Difference between X3 and X6 is not the measurements, it's the vehicle class, base equipment, materials.

IPace has better price than comparable Tesla Model X 100D with 5 seats.
Work "ridiculously" is unforgivably wrong.
I'm going to state the prices in bold, as some might have skipped that DIY they should have taken.
Jaguar i-Pace 77850€
Model X100D 93100€
20% difference in base price for same range vehicle.

Why cherry pick the data? Compare with Model X 75D instead of 100D which has more range than i-Pace, or Model S 75D which beats i-pace in range and BOTH in sport and utility.

 

[purplewalt]

Video - Model X vs Jaguar I-Pace drag race commercial

Okay.
I am going to call this Video and "Test" out as TOTAL BS.

Even IF Jaguar were the FIRST manufacturer to bring a total EV line to the market, this "test" is skewed.
Seriously, "Won it by a similar distance again..."
BS.

How many weird standard "tests" would iPace win against P100D Model X, using Ludicrous Mode?
1/4 Mile drag race? Bring it...
Zero to 60 MPH race? Bring it...
Zero to 100 MPH race? Bring it...

Good Tests Equals valid results.
Weird Tests Equals BS results.

Nice Try iPace.
Why not try a "Race Across America" using current Charging technology, say Los Angeles to NYC.
Any Model X vs iPace? Bring it...

Any kind of towing, Model X vs iPace? Bring it...

Make sure both vehicles have full charge at beginning.
THEN do your "test".

I am so sure Jaguar will post ALL those Videos.

 

[Sunnfun]

I've just watched a few of those I-Pace videos and I have to say I've come away impressed. For a first try fully electric car the I-Pace seems pretty nice. Now, I won't be giving away our 90D Model S yet, but I've signed up for a test drive to compare. Our lease isn't up for another 1.5 years so no rush, but I'm seriously looking at the I-Pace if only for the nice interior. We've come from a M-Class Mercedes and the Tesla Interior is honestly atrocious compared to a Mercedes or Porsche. But we were fine with it for all the other benefits of owning a fully electric car and the S performance is always putting a smile on our faces...

I really wish Tesla would forgo this fully self driving pipe dream and actually invest engineering resources where they actually matter: Improving Interior, improving the software and improve the built quality.

I can't believe that for instance the car can't distinguish between me or my wifes key fob when we approach the car to set the seat memory accordingly. I mean there is only one key fob on the left of the car entering? If she just gets near the car a millisecond before me it set's it to her seat config even though I'm clearly entering from the left. Come on. You're trying to solve Full Self Driving and you can't even get that sorted out? And yes, I've filed lots of bug reports with Tesla Support and they haven't been able to figure it out yet. A thing our M-Class did flawlessly four years ago... Just one example of many many software improvements Tesla is NOT investing in.

Not having Apple CarPlay is another; or at least figure out a way to select the correct phone to connect the Bluetooth to. I mean our M-Class could do that properly four years ago! And for f*** sake get the podcast album art sorted out, please!

Anyways, long story short Tesla desperately needs proper competition in the fully electric car space and they're now finally getting it. It will only benefit all of us, whether we drive a Tesla in the future or the competition.

 

[Sunnfun]

Our lease isn't up for another 1.5 years so no rush, but I'm seriously looking at the I-Pace if only for the nice interior.

Oh and one more thing, I've just priced an I-Pace to our comparable specs and it came out $25K cheaper. Only thing missing were the AP1 which I honestly could live without.

 

[hingisfan]

Oh and one more thing, I've just priced an I-Pace to our comparable specs and it came out $25K cheaper. Only thing missing were the AP1 which I honestly could live without.

How much is the supercharger network worth?

 

[TrevTremaine]

How much is the supercharger network worth?

THAT is the question of the day, especially for North America. Europe seems to be getting their act together with a planned rollout of independent chargers that will work with a few manufacturers. The ones in North America aren't particularly robust. If Jaguar is launching this in North America, it'll need to sort that out PDQ. The idea of charging for hours on a road trip would be a huge disincentive.

 

[mongo]

I really wish Tesla would forgo this fully self driving pipe dream and actually invest engineering resources where they actually matter: Improving Interior, improving the software and improve the built quality.

I can't believe that for instance the car can't distinguish between me or my wifes key fob when we approach the car to set the seat memory accordingly. I mean there is only one key fob on the left of the car entering? If she just gets near the car a millisecond before me it set's it to her seat config even though I'm clearly entering from the left.

There are different types of engineers working on different classes of issues.
Interior design: more styling than physics, not software or electrical, slightly mechanical not AP/ vision type problem

Software: some UI, lots of embedded. They are working, AP / vision is a different speciality

Build quality: manufacturing engineering/ people. Nothing to do with vision/ AP

As for the driver approach issue, they seem to have addressed that in the 3 with 4 antennas, look for that to get rolled into S/X in the future.

 

[mongo]

Let's do that.

Once again Jaguar's and your insistence on comparing vehicles in different classes speaks volumes about the product delivered by Jaguar.

If Jaguar needs to draw comparison with a vehicle that is longer, wider, taller, has more ground clearance, seats more people and weighs 523lbs more to make i-Pace look desirable, especially as far as 0 to 60 mph acceleration goes, it means that their engineering design team failed, full stop. As a cherry on the top, why in a world i-Pace can't be more efficient than a vehicle which weighs 523lbs more, and has larger frontal area?? In fact it has efficiency which is 18.7% **worse** than MX 75D.

All of the data in Table below sourced from a respective manufacturer, or calculated based on such.

View attachment 284278

Thank you for the data!
Can I add in
GVWR: 5,886 vs 6,581 (100% bonus depreciation for businesses)
Cargo capacity: 1102 vs 1274 (derived)
Towing: 0 vs 5,000
Total combined weight capacity: 5,886 vs 11,081 (loaded trailer 10% hitch weight)

 

[malcolm]

I really wish Tesla would forgo this fully self driving pipe dream and actually invest engineering resources where they actually matter: Improving Interior, improving the software and improve the built quality

But would that be a cost effective investment for the long term?

When self-driving becomes a reality (through waymo, Nvidia, Tesla or whoever) every car just becomes a vehicle for hire instead of a personal possession.

I put panel gaps and spartan interiors under the same heading as noticeable Lidar units: embarrassing if it's your own car but not a problem if it's a taxi.

 

[Drone Flyer]

The argument with FSD is that if it ever comes into fruition, maybe 10 years from now, why would we even need a Tesla if we don't drive it? Just hop in a cab or Uber and there you go!

 

[Sunnfun]

There are different types of engineers working on different classes of issues.
Interior design: more styling than physics, not software or electrical, slightly mechanical not AP/ vision type problem

Software: some UI, lots of embedded. They are working, AP / vision is a different speciality

Build quality: manufacturing engineering/ people. Nothing to do with vision/ AP

As for the driver approach issue, they seem to have addressed that in the 3 with 4 antennas, look for that to get rolled into S/X in the future.

But at the end of the day money needs to be allocated to projects and I get the sense that Tesla is investing way to much into the FSD project, especially now that they're months behind Elons promises i.e. coast to coast drive. If I had to choose between FSD or an Interior on the Level of Porsche or Mercedes for my next Model S I'd always choose the latter.

As far as the Jaguar and the missing Supercharger network; I'd read somewhere that VW is investing billions in the US into a fast charging network as part of their Dieselgate settlement? But for now, yes that would be an issue to seriously consider.

 

[mongo]

But at the end of the day money needs to be allocated to projects and I get the sense that Tesla is investing way to much into the FSD project, especially now that they're months behind Elons promises i.e. coast to coast drive.

What I hear you saying is that they should spend less money/ time on the thing they don't have that is behind schedule (FSD) and more on the thing they do have that you don't like (interior).

Interior design concept is different from execution. And, if they had a new concept was more to your liking, you still can't get a baby in one month. There is a diminishing return to allocating more resources.

The argument with FSD is that if it ever comes into fruition, maybe 10 years from now, why would we even need a Tesla if we don't drive it? Just hop in a cab or Uber and there you go!

When they get FSD working, you can drive your Tesla or take a network Tesla FSD. No need for cab or Uber drivers any more. City dwellers get by fine without their own car. People in the countryside, not so much.

 

[sakimano]

if I had paid for FSD I'd be pretty angry...they should offer refunds now that they've missed their promised deadline.

I imagine it would break them to do so as the lineup for that refund would be so big it would be visible from that roadster that is floating in space.

 

[mongo]

if I had paid for FSD I'd be pretty angry...they should offer refunds now that they've missed their promised deadline.

I imagine it would break them to do so as the lineup for that refund would be so big it would be visible from that roadster that is floating in space.

If Tesla had sold all 150k cars (production from Q4 2016 to present) with FSD and refunded them all, that would only be 450 Million in refunds, much less than cash on hand and would not break them.
If they credit the FSD option 100%($3k) toward the trade in value , would that count?

 

[MarcoRP]

We caught an i-Pace Charging, somewhere in England.

Meadowhall Centre PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You

 

[sakimano]

If Tesla had sold all 150k cars (production from Q4 2016 to present) with FSD and refunded them all, that would only be 450 Million in refunds, much less than cash on hand and would not break them.
If they credit the FSD option 100%($3k) toward the trade in value , would that count?

it was a figure of speech. Not break them financially (although burning hundreds of millions of dollars would be awkward for the company right now when they're dilluting shareholders and issuing junk bonds at a regular clip to meet their negative cash flow).

It would break them mentally. It would be admitting to a fairly large failure and would at the same time satisfy those who called this vapourware or ponziism.

 

[ckessel]

I have to admit, the i-pace is tempting. The X is just waaay too damn big. And too expensive. And, frankly, I think those falcon doors are a design disaster in their current form. Seriously, who makes a design where the front and rear doors can collide when opening? How does that ever get off the drawing board?

We've been looking at the smaller crossover SUV sizes, mostly in the luxury brands (BMW, Audi, etc) though that's not a given, to replace my wife's Acura RDX. As much as I'd like it to be electric, there really aren't any options. But Jaguar has this and Hyundai has something coming relatively soon, so suddenly we'll have some lower and higher end options. The Model Y might be just right on all price and size, but it's years away.

 

[mongo]

And, frankly, I think those falcon doors are a design disaster in their current form. Seriously, who makes a design where the front and rear doors can collide when opening? How does that ever get off the drawing board?

The Model X Falcon and front doors do NOT interfere. Just don't put your hand on the front door edge (esp near the top corner).

{Resolved-Yes!} Can Front and Falcon Wing Doors (FWD) be open simultaneously?