New Highland UK - stalks

[GeorgeSymonds]

I'm not sure where essential driving functions stop and start.

I think making fart noises would safely fall into not essential (at least not to many, I have my doubts about a few)
And steering wheel would be essential until we have proper self driving

Whilst Drive select is essential to drive, is it an esential control once driving? I'd err to yes
And the drive select stalk also provides park and an emergency brake function so I'd go further towards yes

And then we can debate controls like lights, wipers etc. On a good day they're autonomous, but take fog lights, thats through a screen although thats always been the Tesla way so a moot point in Teslas world

I still come back to the argument that I can't imagine anybody buys a highland because its stalk free, but people may not buy it, either because of rational or irrational arguments, because of the lack of them. And on that basis, even if no other, the relatively small cost per car seems like a stupid move to drop them. Tesla are throwing money at cars to help sell them, why make it harder for yourself?

 

[Roy Batty]

I still come back to the argument that I can't imagine anybody buys a highland because its stalk free, but people may not buy it, either because of rational or irrational arguments, because of the lack of them. And on that basis, even if no other, the relatively small cost per car seems like a stupid move to drop them. Tesla are throwing money at cars to help sell them, why make it harder for yourself?

Given BYD have just entered the marketplace in Europe I'd say it was an odd decision to give buyers any reason to choose another car.

 

[FastLaneJB]

In the Sandy Munro discussion on the car he mentioned that stalks are an expensive component, didn’t mention how much. So I understand why they did it because they added some new features that increase the cost, to keep the price neutral they also need to reduce cost in other places.

I agree though George. I think it’s impacting their ability to sell these. The RWD is available Mar - Apr if you order now though Long Range is May - Jun.

Separate topic but there’s rumours that the front motor on the Ludicrous will change to a new permanent magnet hairpin motor. In the Model S / X the LR also have a permanent magnet motor so I’m wondering if the LR is also going to get this. It’s still the new rear motor that will give the extra Performance for Ludicrous but can imagine they might want to phase out the old design to keep numbers of motors they make down. Basically not sure the slightly longer ship times on LR is demand but maybe next batch will come with a new front motor.

 

[trueblue_ips]

My big concern is that when Tesla roll back on this, which is inevitable imho, the stalkless cars are going to be near worthless. Who in their right mind would buy a used car without stalks when you can buy a slighter newer m3h that has stalked fitted.
Another one of Elon’s crazy ideas that’s destined for the bin. Even he can’t get it right 100% of the time, genius though he is.

 

[FastLaneJB]

My big concern is that when Tesla roll back on this, which is inevitable imho, the stalkless cars are going to be near worthless. Who in their right mind would buy a used car without stalks when you can buy a slighter newer m3h that has stalked fitted.
Another one of Elon’s crazy ideas that’s destined for the bin. Even he can’t get it right 100% of the time, genius though he is.

I don’t think it’ll make a massive difference if that was to happen in residuals. I’m not sure they’ll rollback, Elon seems pretty stubborn on this.

If Juniper has no stalks, I think that’ll tell you they are happy with how it went with the Highland. If I was them I’d have a stalkless and stalk option both in development to see what the final call is.

 

[Roy Batty]

I don’t think it’ll make a massive difference if that was to happen in residuals. I’m not sure they’ll rollback, Elon seems pretty stubborn on this.

If Juniper has no stalks, I think that’ll tell you they are happy with how it went with the Highland. If I was them I’d have a stalkless and stalk option both in development to see what the final call is.

Just don't get why they didn't wait until steer by wire and progressive racks that make this just fine.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Just don't get why they didn't wait until steer by wire and progressive racks that make this just fine.

Never know how this all works. Maybe that was the plan but wasn’t ready in time.

I think for instance the delay for the M3P is that it needs new motors to be viable and maybe the plan was for all cars to have a new powertrain. However it was delayed so ship RWD / LR with same motors and just delay the Performance. Competition is harsh so they probably thought they couldn’t wait.

 

[Durzel]

My big concern is that when Tesla roll back on this, which is inevitable imho, the stalkless cars are going to be near worthless. Who in their right mind would buy a used car without stalks when you can buy a slighter newer m3h that has stalked fitted.
Another one of Elon’s crazy ideas that’s destined for the bin. Even he can’t get it right 100% of the time, genius though he is.

If they haven’t rolled back on a $5 Bosch rain sensor deletion done several years ago there’s no chance they’ll go back on this in my opinion.

What seems more likely is that they’ll tweak the design, much like how they did with the early refresh S/X which didn’t have haptic buttons, or a physical horn button, and now do. I can see them relocating the indicators to either side of the wheel, which makes far more sense. Maybe even a wheel redesign that puts them in reach of thumbs.

 

[Pagemakers]

genius though he is.

Nowadays that’s very subjective. He’s more of a pain in the arse in my opinion. That’s coming from and owner and investor.

 

[Timmo]

I picked up my new Highland yesterday. I hadn't appreciated how difficult it is going to be to drive the car without the indicator stalk. If you do a tight left turn then right, for example, the indicator buttons are in the wrong place given the movement of the steering wheel. Roundabouts/three point turns are going to be really challenging. Also, changing gears without a stalk is not easy either. The car has some major improvements from my 2019 Tesla but I'm not sure I would have bought it had I taken a test drive beforehand so for anyone looking to buy one, I would recommend you try it out first. I'm hoping that Tesla will either relent and come up with an after care kit or someone else will come up with one.

For me: No stalk = 100% Dealbreaker.
If Tesla does not fix this incredibly stupid design error my 2018 M3 is the only Tesla I will ever own.

 

[KennethS]

For me: No stalk = 100% Dealbreaker.
If Tesla does not fix this incredibly stupid design error my 2018 M3 is the only Tesla I will ever own.

Time will tell whether you are an outlier or in the majority. Thus far this seems a minority view. Whether that is confirmation bias of early adopters is yet to be known.

 

[Drew57]

Given BYD have just entered the marketplace in Europe I'd say it was an odd decision to give buyers any reason to choose another car.

Arrogance.

We have all bought into a market disruptor & for Tesla to compete with these Chinese brands they need economies of both cost and scale. I've always believed that an obsession with autonomy is linked to every action they take but linked to reducing cost at the same time...

Controls removed or simplified at the rate Tesla believe that the cars are becoming fully autonomous (USA being their priority).
Develop games, media etc for the 'occupancy' screen & gradually move everything from physical to screen, including driver features during the transition.

 

[CaptainSlog]

For me: No stalk = 100% Dealbreaker.
If Tesla does not fix this incredibly stupid design error my 2018 M3 is the only Tesla I will ever own.

Same here. I really wanted a new Tesla but the indicator issue has really put me off.

In the UK it is very common to indicate during a turn especially on roundabouts. I guess US drivers have never experienced junctions with multiple roundabouts. There are several double roundabouts near me and Milton Keynes drivers have nightmares over their monster roundabout. It’s important to be aware of surroundings and not be trying to figure out where the buttons are!

Sometimes the steering wheel will be at 90° sometimes at 180°C but it could be anywhere.

I’ve read that most new adopters get used to it after a while but what about my partner who usually drives a car with an indicator stalk? What about when you’re distracted by difficult road conditions or other vehicles? What about older drivers. Not everyone can adapt and get it right 100% of the time.

Even the enthusiasts say it’s fine “most of the time” but that’s not good enough for something as safety critical as indicators.

With hundreds of thousands of Teslas on UK roads it only takes the occasional mistake by the odd driver and we’ll soon see many accidents and potentially deaths.

For me it’s just not worth the risk. I’ll buy another brand thanks…

 

[CaptainSlog]

I watched this video where Elon talks about not needing a stalk for forwards and reverse. At one point Elon suggests “you almost never get it done wrong”. I thought it sounded crazy when I read it:

Next day I read about the poor woman who reversed her Tesla into a pond instead of driving forwards. She didn’t get out and will be missed by her young family…

Angela Chao's death reveals Tesla's long-standing reverse gear issues

Before Angela Chao's fatal Tesla accident, feds had years of complaints about gearshifting, which some said led to confusion and unintended reversing.

www.businessinsider.com

It’s not good enough that it works 99.9% of the time - it needs to be better than that where it impacts safety.

 

[Wybrook]

I guess US drivers have never experienced junctions with multiple roundabouts.

I suspect most US drivers don’t even know what a roundabout (or ‘traffic circle’) is …

 

[Wybrook]

Just don't get why they didn't wait until steer by wire and progressive racks that make this just fine.

Eh, they already got that on the ‘Cybertruck’, so I doubt the US see this as a problem. The fact the ‘Cybertruck’ is unlikely to ever be seen outside the US isn’t relevant (?).

 

[trueblue_ips]

For me: No stalk = 100% Dealbreaker.
If Tesla does not fix this incredibly stupid design error my 2018 M3 is the only Tesla I will ever own.

Looking for an electric car this year but have ruled out a m3 now. Wouldn’t even bother with a test drive because I know I can’t operate buttons with wheel inverted. Radio station and volume buttons on steering wheel I can’t operate with wheel inverted, I have to wait until the steering wheel is back to normal neutral position. That’s no problem with radio controls but indicator signals is a different matter entirely. Too dangerous and another reason for insurers to hike premiums. Smart#1 brabus is current front runner.

 

[Mike_M3]

Looking for an electric car this year but have ruled out a m3 now. Wouldn’t even bother with a test drive because I know I can’t operate buttons with wheel inverted. Radio station and volume buttons on steering wheel I can’t operate with wheel inverted, I have to wait until the steering wheel is back to normal neutral position. That’s no problem with radio controls but indicator signals is a different matter entirely. Too dangerous and another reason for insurers to hike premiums. Smart#1 brabus is current front runner.

I’d say a manual car with gears and a clutch are more difficult to master than buttons on a steering wheel, people seem to have no issues with those. Operating buttons when the steering wheel is upside down isn’t difficult, you just press the other button!! It’s something you just learn (like people do with clutch/gears).

 

[Jason71]

I’d say a manual car with gears and a clutch are more difficult to master than buttons on a steering wheel, people seem to have no issues with those. Operating buttons when the steering wheel is upside down isn’t difficult, you just press the other button!! It’s something you just learn (like people do with clutch/gears).

I don't know what you have been driving but every manual car i have had the gear lever and clutch pedal in a fixed position. If reverse and 1st and the clutch and brake swappped positions every time i turned the steering wheel i think i would have struggled.

 

[Timmo]

Please explain which essential driving functions have been put on touch screen.
This is new to me and every review I have read.

Shifting is a key driving function. Have you ever touched the wrong letter writing a text on your phone? In the new Tesla vehicles touching D instead of R, or vice versa, can be deadly.