New Highland UK - stalks

[spdpsba]

Model 3 is still a car

So? Doesn’t have to have stalks only for indicator just because people are used to it that way! Innovation starts from challenging established deep rooted practice and beliefs. Otherwise we will be still using faster horses and comparing model 3 to pogo sticks.

One of the best quote by a visionary leader of our times.

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”​

― Steve Jobs

 

[doats1]

So?

So the horse analogy which you’ve used a handful of times to compare removing stalks with the evolution of personal transport is a bit of a reach.

 

[spdpsba]

So the horse analogy which you’ve used a handful of times t

The horse analogy is an important part of Model 3 and Elon’s vision of Tesla production line, simplifying car production, using minimalism all was inspired by Henry Ford’s vision. I hope he doesn’t make the same mistake of what Ford did by standing still and producing the same cars because people didn’t like change. Because success itself can stop innovation. We know that from the legacy car makers.

 

[doats1]

I don’t agree that car manufacturers like ford have ‘stood still’. Tesla didn’t invent the electric car, nor did they invent autonomous driving or any significant strides in the car we know today compared to back then.

Despite that, those are the advances that they are pioneering and I think will change the face of driving, which is good and I’m glad they’ve accelerated. But removing stalks before those things are in a credible state once again just looks pointless.

Saying that I personally don’t think removing stalks makes indicating worse or dangerous, but it hasn’t made it better, so why do it?

 

[spdpsba]

but the fact we disagree means Tesla has a problem.

Not really.

One of the study from UoB states: The probability that two people selected at random will share the same concept about penguins is around 12%. That’s because people are disagreeing about whether penguins are heavy, presumably because they haven’t lifted a penguin. We all disagree and especially in a forum. That doesn’t mean Tesla has a problem.

I say dog, you say chicken? New study explores why we disagree so often

New research from UC Berkeley says mismatches in conceptual definitions of basic things — even animals — help explain why people end up talking past each other so often. (Photo by Jon Kenfield via Flickr) Is a dog more similar to a chicken or an ...

news.berkeley.edu

 

[spdpsba]

I don’t agree that car manufacturers like ford have ‘stood still’.

That’s a fact and there are evidence of how GM overtook Ford in 1929. Ford literally made the same car again and again. We had all heard or read the famous quote from Ford that any colour as long as it is black. Ford didn’t want to make change and stopped innovating as its success story was huge. And making changes is much harder if you are successful

 

[Jason71]

5:30 then 6:15 into this video, which I presume are relatively close in real time as they’re following the same car show two situations where a change of indication is needed at an awkward time when the steering wheel is moving, it’s not just a case of hitting a button on a stationary steering wheel

What’s also interesting to me is its following an older car that doesn’t indicate correctly, and at the first of the two examples they’re still indicating right as they leave the roundabout which is sending the wrong signal to the car approaching, if that BMW had been a few seconds further up the road they would have needed to stop just in case. So rubbish indicating is a thing, would they think being stalkless was an issue if they don’t bother anyway in those situations?

It’s back to 95+% it’s not an issue, we can argue how big an issue the remaining 5% is, but the fact we disagree means Tesla has a problem.

That vid was actually shot a couple of miles from where I live on roads I drive on regularly. And I would not say he has cherry picked Shifnal either for its layout or roundabout density. Plenty of other similar place around.

 

[Jason71]

Of course, that’s what the horse carriage owners said when they were worried about the change. And another cliche was change for the sake of change isn’t good. We have heard this all the time on this forum. I guess @GeorgeSymonds can see the funny side of this post.

We all know no argument is going to sway you at this point but surely you can see that the horse thing is a very poor analogy?
Most of the people on here drive Tesla's so we aren't exactly a bunch of Luddites.

Many people have criticized the touchscreen I am sure, and they are probably right to some degree. Physical buttons for say heating temp probably is marginally safer since you can then alter it with a much shorter period of distraction. Does not bother me though. I can just wait to do that until I am on straight piece of road where the risk is minimal. And the whole speedo position thing and needs a heads up display, utter nonsense.

But my potential red line is when you start to mess with the basic driving controls for no good reason other than ideology and cost saving. Tesla tried that once before with the wipers and then had to back track and provide a way to set the speed from the steering wheel.
Not saying controls should never be changed. Steer by wire looks like it could be awesome. Might even make removal of stalks OK. But by its self , in my opinion , this is just dumb. Several potential risks / downsides with no obvious benefit for the consumer/driver.

 

[spdpsba]

Most of the people on here drive Tesla's so we aren't exactly a bunch of Luddites.

I found this word ‘neo-luddism’ interesting in a good way and funny.

Neo-Luddism stipulates the use of the precautionary principle for all new technologies, insisting that technologies be proven safe before adoption, due to the unknown effects that new technologies might inspire.

Btw, it’s just for fun. I like your contributions on this forum. Your point taken but a variation of neo-Luddism may still apply.

 

[ACarneiro]

I found this word ‘neo-luddism’ interesting in a good way and funny.

Neo-Luddism stipulates the use of the precautionary principle for all new technologies, insisting that technologies be proven safe before adoption, due to the unknown effects that new technologies might inspire.

Btw, it’s just for fun. I like your contributions on this forum. Your point taken but a variation of neo-Luddism may still apply.

Interesting link, thank you for that.
I really can't see a problem in having a precautionary approach to safety-of-life systems. Look at the aviation industry. VERY precautionary approach to change and yet innovation still happens.

 

[init6]

Boeing passengers would disagree

 

[ACarneiro]

Boeing passengers would disagree

Hah! Very good.... although Boeing's issues are a lot more complicated.
(Or, actually, probably quite a simple story of greed and hubris, come to think of it....)

 

[Timmo]

“I have to locate the correct scroll wheel which can be anywhere within 360-degree arc”

The button doesn’t float around…it’s stuck on the same part of the steering wheel, it’s not hard to find and will obviously been on the opposite side of the steering is turned more than 90 degrees.

Also, on the highway how often do you have the steering turned more than 90 degree?

Some of these comments are worrying, how did these people pass their driving tests!

Anyone who has had difficulty adjusting the sound system volume while driving (read: everyone driving a Tesla) will know that scroll wheels moving in a 360-degree arc is a problem. I, for one, will not accept this for adjusting speed or turn signals. There is a reason 99.9% of vehicles on the road use a stalk for turn signals and waiting for a once-in-a-generation genius to tell us there is a better way is not that reason.

 

[Jason71]

Anyone who has had difficulty adjusting the sound system volume while driving (read: everyone driving a Tesla) will know that scroll wheels moving in a 360-degree arc is a problem. I, for one, will not accept this for adjusting speed or turn signals. There is a reason 99.9% of vehicles on the road use a stalk for turn signals and waiting for a once-in-a-generation genius to tell us there is a better way is not that reason.

This is a new one on me. I don't recall changing the volume being a problem What is the issue?
The only problem I have in that area is no different preset volumes for different input channels so you can switch from say BT to radio and he volume can jump way to high.

 

[Zilla91]

When the wheel is turned you need to work out which of the two scroll wheels you need to turn for the volume and whether you need to go up to turn the volume down or vice versa.

It's never been something I've needed to urgently change so I always just wait until the wheel is back straight before I do anything.

In fairness it's something that all cars with steering wheel mounted volume buttons suffer from so it's not a Tesla specific issue.

 

[Jason71]

When the wheel is turned you need to work out which of the two scroll wheels you need to turn for the volume and whether you need to go up to turn the volume down or vice versa.

It's never been something I've needed to urgently change so I always just wait until the wheel is back straight before I do anything.

In fairness it's something that all cars with steering wheel mounted volume buttons suffer from so it's not a Tesla specific issue.

Fair enough, But as you say waiting is generally an option so I think I can forgive Tesla and everyone else on this one.

 

[Timmo]

When the wheel is turned you need to work out which of the two scroll wheels you need to turn for the volume and whether you need to go up to turn the volume down or vice versa.

It's never been something I've needed to urgently change so I always just wait until the wheel is back straight before I do anything.

In fairness it's something that all cars with steering wheel mounted volume buttons suffer from so it's not a Tesla specific issue.

steering wheel mounted scroll wheels for:
Stereo volume = inconvenience.
Turn signals = bigger issue.
The human brain can only attend to one task at a time (sorry all you multitaskers out there, the brain doesn't work that way). I'd rather drive the car than hunt for the correct scroll wheel and figure out which way to push it when things get tense.
But that's just me.

 

[Pagemakers]

Anybody use S3XY Buttons/Knob for Highland indicators?

 

[trueblue_ips]

Frankly, I can’t believe there are fanboys actually willing to try and defend this nonsense. It’s a barmy decision with zero benefit to the driver. Stalks are easy to use, you don’t have to do searching or reaching for anything and stalk are ubiquitous.
What next? Remove the pedals and replace them with two steering wheel mounted scroll buttons?
It will cost Tesla sales. Just a question of how many I guess and whether Elon cares enough in his obsession for full automation and FSD. As others have said, it’ll be interesting to see whether this is carried over to the new model y.
Even rsymons says it’s a stupid change and should be reversed asap.

 

[Jules22]

Anybody use S3XY Buttons/Knob for Highland indicators?

I know of a few who were planning to do so, but once they got their Highlands decided they preferred the buttons.

The S3XY guys were looking at putting out an after-market stalk option, but again of the couple of dozen highland owners I talk to only a few were concerned enough about the stalks to be thinking of after market alternatives and all of those decided there was no need once they'd had a chance to drive the car for a week or two.