New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[AlMc]

I'm almost sure, Tesla will eventually launch foldable second row seats. My reasoning is based on three things
1) Tesla wants them (based on the fact, that they have advertised them before)
2) Some customers want them (no explanation necessary)
3) Foldable second row car seats are not rocket science (and even if they were, that would not be a problem:tongue

Based on 1,2 and 3; if you want foldable second row, it is maybe best to wait.

Sound reasoning. My other thought (worry) is that in 9 montrhs they have the foldable seat option and a 110 battery option.

 

[mrdoubleb]

Sound reasoning. My other thought (worry) is that in 9 montrhs they have the foldable seat option and a 110 battery option.

What if what we are seeing is "plan B"? They planned to launch with that "work of art" foldable 2nd row, but the supplier cannot meet the schedule and this was the only way to not miss the end of Q3 deadline?

 

[MrBoylan]

My other thought (worry) is that in 9 montrhs they have the foldable seat option and a 110 battery option.

I don't think they'll offer a 110 within the space of a year. But I am fully expecting to upgrade my Model X to a 120 (or larger) in 10 years when my 90 is down to 94% capacity. They can reuse my trade-in battery's cells for Power Walls!

 

[vandacca]

... It is hard to believe there is not going to be an event at the end of the month...

Let me just say, as an engineer, you never feel like the product is ever completely finished and ready to sell to customers. But in reality, at some point you have to let it go and ship it. In trying to step into Elon's shoes for a moment, I would think that while they do ship the first Model-X in a couple of weeks, they are far from reaching the finish line. I'm sure they have a lot of issues that still need to be worked out, along with new ones they find along the way (probably mainly with the production line).

Therefore, there is a lot of work still ahead and having a celebratory event may not feel right at this time. Of course, from an end-user perspective, it's seems like a big deal and it feels like we should be celebrating.

At least he isn't making the same mistake George W. Bush made on that ship a few years back? Anyone remember "Mission Accomplished"?

 

[smac]

What if what we are seeing is "plan B"? They planned to launch with that "work of art" foldable 2nd row, but the supplier cannot meet the schedule and this was the only way to not miss the end of Q3 deadline?

This is plausible.
The other option is last minute crash testing threw up issues.

Quite clear the intention was folding, and something has cropped up. Getting something to market in Q3 took over.

How serious the issue is I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[scaesare]

Did I miss something? I looked back and didn't see any viable examples of current vehicles with PEDESTAL folding seats (where the seat back doesn't lock into the frame, which it cannot on the MX) AND integrated seat belts AND sold in the US, thus meeting safety standards here.

The closest I have seen is the Sienna, and those seats were discontinued to make way for more cushy seats. Right. More likely they were discontinued because they were unsafe, and Toyota's marketing and legal departments agreed to spin the "we just wanted them to be more comfortable" angle.

I don't think you are missing anything. I wasn't claiming that the previous examples were pedestal mounted.

My point was they decided to make the "non-foldable" compromise for some reason. It may be that they felt a stylish base was worth it.

Given that the previous cited examples demonstrate that you can engineer foldable seats with integrated belt mounts, the decision to emphasize what may be style over substance is an interesting one.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't think you are missing anything. I wasn't claiming that the previous examples were pedestal mounted.

My point was they decided to make the "non-foldable" compromise for some reason. It may be that they felt a stylish base was worth it.

Given that the previous cited examples demonstrate that you can engineer foldable seats with integrated belt mounts, the decision to emphasize what may be style over substance is an interesting one.

I think his point was that other than pedestal mount, there is no other viable way for the 2nd row seats in the Model X, given there is no C pillar close enough to latch on to or to mount seatbelts (unlike many of the examples posted). The only example of a foldable seat that I have seen so far that may work on the Model X are the Sienna ones and they were discontinued by Toyota in favor of seats similar to what Tesla is using right now. I imagine the reasons behind Toyota's decision would be very similar to Tesla's.

 

[smac]

I think his point was that other than pedestal mount, there is no other viable way for the 2nd row seats in the Model X, given there is no C pillar close enough to latch on to or to mount seatbelts (unlike many of the examples posted). The only example of a foldable seat that I have seen so far that may work on the Model X are the Sienna ones and they were discontinued by Toyota in favor of seats similar to what Tesla is using right now. I imagine the reasons behind Toyota's decision would be very similar to Tesla's.

The latest Sienna seats aren't like the X they do fold "a bit" in luxury lounge configuration. This is limited by the seat bolster. In"poverty spec" they do fold flattish.

The latest Sienna has more significantly, for purpose of comparison, moved the seat belts to the pillars.

I'm not claiming given enough cost(for unobtainium) and weight budget "in seat" belts are not doable. Just it isn't easy.

 

[Skotty]

If I might add something -- the pedestal in and of itself doesn't seem to have an obvious value, beyond maybe some folks who think it's pretty. I'm not convinced the show is over on what they can do.

 

[ohmman]

If I might add something -- the pedestal in and of itself doesn't seem to have an obvious value, beyond maybe some folks who think it's pretty. I'm not convinced the show is over on what they can do.

I still think it's an embedded ejection mechanism for unruly passengers. Ride in my car some days, and you'll understand the utility.

 

[smac]

Those images are clearly CGI - it doesn't use global illumination (illumination too flat).
The shape of the specular reflections are also a dead giveaway (on car paint, glass or chrome trims)

That and the bike has no pedals

 

[MrBoylan]

I still think it's an embedded ejection mechanism for unruly passengers. Ride in my car some days, and you'll understand the utility.

Maybe Bonnie or Nigel can invite a few forum members for a test ride and we can test that theory?

 

[Skotty]

My money is still on the swivel seat idea. So, not sure what they would do with the center seat, but I could see them making the side seats swivel all the way around using a multi-point mechanical linkage anchored at the pedestal. This would allow the 2nd row seats to face the front or the rear while in motion, and probably able to face outward towards the side while stopped with the doors up (handy for putting kids in car seats).

I might add that if there is an outward facing loading position, the falcon doors will have an added advantage when dealing with normal rain, as they should be able to provide shelter while getting the kids in and out of their car seats. A little bit of rain might sneak in from the front or back along the door edge, but it could go a long ways in preventing wet back syndrome (I've personally suffered from wet back many many times).

There's also opportunity, if it can be made safe and acceptable to regulation, if they can make it so instead of rear facing baby seats sitting on front facing adult seats, you could instead use front facing baby seats on rear facing adult seats, and this could actually save some space. In most of the cars I've owned you end up having the front seat passenger with their face smashed against the windshield and knees buried in the dash to make enough space in the back for a rear facing baby seat.

 

[scottf200]

I can't speak for everyone, but that's my interpretation. I'm estimating 130-140 cm (51-55") cargo space with the 2nd row in use, and 180 cm (~71") with the 2nd row pushed all the way forward.

I don't see more than 48" / 4' here:

 

[Yggdrasill]

You have to keep in mind the purpose of that computer generated image. The point is to show the seats clearly, so that you can see which areas are heated. The actual seats probably don't recline as much and are normally positioned a bit differently. My estimates for what will be available space is something like this (give or take a few inches):

- - - Updated - - -

(Okay, maybe the bottom line is a tad long. It's possible it might be more like 65".)

- - - Updated - - -

Also, just to show how I would carry a long narrow object, with the middle seat pushed all the way forward and the right seat pushed all the way back.:

 

[stopcrazypp]

The latest Sienna seats aren't like the X they do fold "a bit" in luxury lounge configuration. This is limited by the seat bolster. In"poverty spec" they do fold flattish.

The latest Sienna has more significantly, for purpose of comparison, moved the seat belts to the pillars.

I'm not claiming given enough cost(for unobtainium) and weight budget "in seat" belts are not doable. Just it isn't easy.

From the pictures I have found, even the base seats (with side seat belts mounted on C-pillar) folds a bit like the front seats on a coupe (tilts forward a bit), but not enough that the top headrest can touch the back of the front seats. The seating surface can also be lifted to reduce the space.
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/crp/vp/images/11toyota_sienna/Second_row_fwd_MA.jpg
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp...ta-sienna-se-3rd-row-seats-access-770x510.jpg
However, I did not find in the manual that the seats can be folded flattish or any picture of the seats folded in such a way.

The more expensive lounge option has seatbelts mounted on the seat itself like the Model X and previous Sienna:
http://2015redesigncars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2015-Toyota-Sienna-interior.jpg

 

[scottf200]

Also, just to show how I would carry a long narrow object, with the middle seat pushed all the way forward and the right seat pushed all the way back.:

Nice one. I was playing around with the drawing and came to the EXACT conclusion yesterday. It'd be great if that middle seat would fold down for sleeping or hauling things!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

You have to keep in mind the purpose of that computer generated image. The point is to show the seats clearly, so that you can see which areas are heated. The actual seats probably don't recline as much and are normally positioned a bit differently. My estimates for what will be available space is something like this (give or take a few inches):

View attachment 94537

- - - Updated - - -

(Okay, maybe the bottom line is a tad long. It's possible it might be more like 65".)

- - - Updated - - -

Also, just to show how I would carry a long narrow object, with the middle seat pushed all the way forward and the right seat pushed all the way back.:

View attachment 94544

You could also potentially recline the front passenger seat or push it all the way forward and have even more room. In my CR-V, the front seat almost folds flat so I've done that many times when moving long things. Of course it could potentially damage the fabric/leather.

 

[etm33]

What I want to put back there are bicycles with the front wheels off. I'll mount some fork mounts to something (hopefully more elegant than a 2 X 4, but that'll work in a pinch) and put it at the very back.

I had an Xterra which had nice mounting rails along the sides, and a piece of angle iron covered in black plasti-dip looks a lot nicer than a 2x4, and matched the fork mounts I had.

 

[smac]

I had an Xterra which had nice mounting rails along the sides, and a piece of angle iron covered in black plasti-dip looks a lot nicer than a 2x4, and matched the fork mounts I had.

I had a Nissan Frontier (Double cab, which is the biggest RHD I could get at the time). Did something similar.

I was always worried though as we had $10k + of MTBs out in the open. In the end it was cheaper to buy an old MPV than a hardtop