New Update Coming Next Month

[MXWing]

I think besides all the problems they all have in their hands right now another big problem is slowing down for curves without changed speed limits. There are several curves I have taken on freeways and felt very uncomfortable with autopilot and especially on local roads this makes a huge problem. I don't know how they would determine how much to slow down based on the angle and distance of the curve. Another obstacle to find a solution for.

Here is my wild ass guess but I hope it's true. Tesla stated FSDC which is Level 5 autonomy.

Experts seem to think you need Lidar for that. What could be better than Lidar is real time mapping via camera and distributed information sharing. Think waze. With half a million cars on the road, Tesla could conceivably record every possible driving surface in the world.

The first car through that curve it's gonna be ugly but the cameras figure out the curvature of the road and the next car handles it better, etc?

I hope this is possible.

 

[PluggedINLife]

Don't forget, AP2 still can't read speed limit signs (and no hint it will soon).

But yeah, expect FSD features in a few weeks and drive across the country hands off in 6.

I'm amazed he called the current AP "safe" given my experience of it going into the oncoming lane on local roads about every 5 miles of use.

Confused on not being able to read speed limit. My model shows and changes to speed limits or am I wrong that it senses it?

In my experience turning on AP2 is the scary part. Most of the time it seems like it would like to swerve off to the left when I start it.

When it settles down, it is manageable until other traffic appears and it goes berserk trying to follow an exiting car away from the road etc.

Mine swerves to the left too. It did get a bit better with the last update.

 

[Cosmica]

Nope, he flat out meant no cruise at all. Early AP2 cars had no cruise at all. It was about 2 weeks to get a firmware update just to give cruise. TAAC came two months after that.

I know it's hard to believe, but that's how far behind they were when they delivered AP2 cars. Likely because they thought they'd just drop all AP1 features on the cars in December, and then realized that they were insanely behind and probably had to go get an intern to code up basic cruise so owners wouldn't go ballistic that a $100K+ car didn't have cruise at all.

New firmware for AP2.0 owners adds regular cruise control • r/teslamotors

We got our HW2 car November 26 and it definitely did not have cruise (or anything else automatic). When the delivery specialist called to ask if everything was "OK", I discussed it with him and he consoled me with how cool everything would be once the software was ready...

 

[gearchruncher]

Confused on not being able to read speed limit. My model shows and changes to speed limits or am I wrong that it senses it?

Your car uses a GPS database of speed limits. Often wrong, always wrong when the speed limit is temporarily changed. Pay close attention and it generally changes quite a bit before or after the actual sign.

AP1 actually reads the signs. AP2 will need to do this work safely and to, you know, actually stop at a stop sign.

But totally don't worry, they are super close to doing what MobilEye took 10 years to make and it only took them 6 months to do a lot less.

 

[stefan.bc]

To me it was baked into the cost of the lease. Fwiw, my brother leased an E350 at about the same time.

I find this hard to believe even if your signature says S60. Maybe your brother maxed out on features?

 

[Tangible]

Never saw Elon or anyone else ever promise anything, other than what is spelled out in the purchase agreement.

Claims made in marketing materials are called parol evidence. Depending on state law, such claims may be invalidated by an integration clause in the contract, or they may actually have legal force. Claims made on an order form, describing what's being sold, are clearly closer to being contract terms than marketing.

While delivery of all EAP features in December '16 was never promised on the order form, there were possibly false statements of fact that would cause the buyer to make incorrect inferences about what he was buying. The wording on the order form included this:

Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.
​

That wording was there at least through the end of December, so it was referring to an event just days away in some cases. Could that expectation possibly have been genuine at that time? Buyers reasonably inferred, based on that statement, that all steps from design through coding through system testing were complete, and that the only risk they were taking was that "validation" would take longer than expected. As we now know, development of the new system was actually in a much earlier stage, and a rollout in December was flatly impossible. In a recent earnings call, Elon Musk told investors he was pleased - in April - that they had been able to accomplish this in just six months.

 

[_jal_]

Has anyone got any conventional/simple/dumb cruise control control function ever since AP2 comes out?

I took delivery 12/16 and it had regular cruise.

 

[_jal_]

You're saying I should take my car to the service center? Because I have dash cam video of it going into the oncoming lane twice today on well marked roads, and diving for a center divider at an exit ramp. Just today in 30 miles of driving. You seriously think I'd get any reaction besides "wait for the next update"?

It's the end of May. If they can't get the car to not do that after 6 months of work, they are WAY behind. And all of that would be fine, except they made statements and sold $10,000 options based on those statements.

Sadly, you probably have a point based on what I've heard people say about SC attention to AP problems. All I know is my car behaves so much better than some other people say theirs behaves that I'm almost to the point where there's a calibration issue or something. I don't have a dashcam, but I use it on some challenging roads and it works very well.

 

[croman]

I took delivery 12/16 and it had regular cruise.

I took delivery in December and it also had vanilla cruise (8.0 2.48.204). 8.0 2.52.120 was Jan 16 when I got TACC.

 

[Reciprocity]

Nope, he flat out meant no cruise at all. Early AP2 cars had no cruise at all. It was about 2 weeks to get a firmware update just to give cruise. TAAC came two months after that.

I know it's hard to believe, but that's how far behind they were when they delivered AP2 cars. Likely because they thought they'd just drop all AP1 features on the cars in December, and then realized that they were insanely behind and probably had to go get an intern to code up basic cruise so owners wouldn't go ballistic that a $100K+ car didn't have cruise at all.

New firmware for AP2.0 owners adds regular cruise control • r/teslamotors

Ahh, then that's why I had by Dec. 28th when I picked up my X. Roughly 2 weeks after you.

 

[NerdUno]

Apparently we "might" get our rain-sensing wipers in June, too. Only 6 months after we were told we'd have them! Sweet!

Just wait 'til the first time a sea gull dumps on your windshield. Should be gorgeous with those wipers going full blast.

 

[gearchruncher]

While delivery of all EAP features in December '16 was never promised on the order form, there were possibly false statements of fact that would cause the buyer to make incorrect inferences about what he was buying. The wording on the order form included this:

Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.
​

That wording was there at least through the end of December, so it was referring to an event just days away in some cases. Could that expectation possibly have been genuine at that time? Buyers reasonably inferred, based on that statement, that all steps from design through coding through system testing were complete, and that the only risk they were taking was that "validation" would take longer than expected.

It's worse than that. Up to January 20th of this year, The website said:

"These active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking, will become available in December 2016 and roll out through over-the-air software updates."

There's no "might." It literally says "WILL."

Plus, what is all this discussion of purchase agreements? Mine says nothing about software updates. Does someone have a copy of one of these mythical agreements that protects them against all the public statements when you actually buy the car? Where's the agreement when you put down a non-refundable $2,500 deposit that says "don't rely on our website or CEO statements"

And finally, as usual, I need to remind people that 20,000+ people had order forms that said Autopilot 1.0 but were delivered AP 2.0.

 

[Sawyer8888]

But the bravado with which some banter around this ubiquitous AP "failure" is getting really tiring.

Tesla's over-promise and under-deliver approach (tiring) leads to the multitude of AP-failure postings. Crossing lanes and driving toward oncoming traffic is a failure - not a "failure" with quotes.

Much of the "banter" is meant to help improve the system (assuming Tesla is listening - the media certainly is). We can all remain silent and hope that Tesla will figure it out for themselves - and for the most part they will. However posting experiences with AP's shortcomings will do more good than harm IMO.

AP -- yawn, stretch, belch etc..

How about Spotify for the owners of the Classic P85+.. or the new battery architecture for the Model S, or a tow hitch for the model S or something more useful....than AP..... thats all we hear about.... I don't care... maybe when I'm 80, I will

I am sure there is a thread for each of these topics. Unless the title includes "No AP Allowed", then get yourself prepared to see it within that thread. With proper preparation, you too will be able to complete your stretching and betching prior to reading.

 

[dmode]

Literally every AP thread has the same discussion. What was promised in Dec 2016 and what was not delivered. Can we not have a sticky where members who are unhappy about promises being broken can continue their discussion? While others who are not that riled up about AP2 misses can speculate about future features in separate threads ?

 

[Bladerskb]

Tesla's over-promise and under-deliver approach (tiring) leads to the multitude of AP-failure postings. Crossing lanes and driving toward oncoming traffic is a failure - not a "failure" with quotes.

Much of the "banter" is meant to help improve the system (assuming Tesla is listening - the media certainly is). We can all remain silent and hope that Tesla will figure it out for themselves - and for the most part they will. However posting experiences with AP's shortcomings will do more good than harm IMO.



I am sure there is a thread for each of these topics. Unless the title includes "No AP Allowed", then get yourself prepared to see it within that thread. With proper preparation, you too will be able to complete your stretching and betching prior to reading.

What overpromise and under deliver?

Elon said we will be able to sleep in our cars by dec 2017. Haven't you see his track reocrd with rockets and evs? Oh ye of little faith why doest thou doubt?

If @stopcrazypp believes elon and says we can summon from anywhere in 2018 then i do too!

 

[stopcrazypp]

Claims made in marketing materials are called parol evidence. Depending on state law, such claims may be invalidated by an integration clause in the contract, or they may actually have legal force. Claims made on an order form, describing what's being sold, are clearly closer to being contract terms than marketing.

While delivery of all EAP features in December '16 was never promised on the order form, there were possibly false statements of fact that would cause the buyer to make incorrect inferences about what he was buying. The wording on the order form included this:

Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.
​

That wording was there at least through the end of December, so it was referring to an event just days away in some cases. Could that expectation possibly have been genuine at that time? Buyers reasonably inferred, based on that statement, that all steps from design through coding through system testing were complete, and that the only risk they were taking was that "validation" would take longer than expected. As we now know, development of the new system was actually in a much earlier stage, and a rollout in December was flatly impossible. In a recent earnings call, Elon Musk told investors he was pleased - in April - that they had been able to accomplish this in just six months.

In the software context, validation can involve a lot of coding or even a complete redesign if the software fails validation.
Software verification and validation - Wikipedia

This may also be another case of the ninety-ninety rule, where a substantial part is done, but the last part takes a lot longer than expected.
Ninety-ninety rule - Wikipedia

 

[stopcrazypp]

What overpromise and under deliver?

Elon said we will be able to sleep in our cars by dec 2017. Haven't you see his track reocrd with rockets and evs? Oh ye of little faith why doest thou doubt?

If @stopcrazypp believes elon and says we can summon from anywhere in 2018 then i do too!

Again calling me out for no apparent reason and putting words in my mouth? Where did I say I believe we can summon from anywhere in 2018?

From the other thread you started, back in 2015 he said he believed level 4 driving would be possible technically in ~2018 (to be more accurate he said ~2 or 3 years and this was calculated; he never says ~2018 exactly), but it'll take a couple of years of regulations (1-3 years) before it'll be allowed. So it'll be a while after 2018 before a summon from anywhere would be possible in consumer hands (maybe a demo would be possible).

 

[Sawyer8888]

What overpromise and under deliver?

Elon said we will be able to sleep in our cars by dec 2017. Haven't you see his track reocrd with rockets and evs? Oh ye of little faith why doest thou doubt?

If @stopcrazypp believes elon and says we can summon from anywhere in 2018 then i do too!

Oh ye of little information...

As of April 29, 2017:

Elon Musk clarifies Tesla’s plan for level 5 fully autonomous driving: 2 years away from sleeping in the car​

@Bladerskb Sarcasm doesn't translate well in threads. So if that's what your post was, then nevermind. We're on the same page.

 

[oktane]

Literally every AP thread has the same discussion. What was promised in Dec 2016 and what was not delivered. Can we not have a sticky where members who are unhappy about promises being broken can continue their discussion? While others who are not that riled up about AP2 misses can speculate about future features in separate threads ?

No.

 

[_jal_]

Tesla's over-promise and under-deliver approach (tiring) leads to the multitude of AP-failure postings. Crossing lanes and driving toward oncoming traffic is a failure - not a "failure" with quotes.

Much of the "banter" is meant to help improve the system (assuming Tesla is listening - the media certainly is). We can all remain silent and hope that Tesla will figure it out for themselves - and for the most part they will. However posting experiences with AP's shortcomings will do more good than harm IMO.

I agree that if there is a problem, then someone has to tell someone. I guess that's why I wrote "tell the SC" even if that is a fruitless approach. If an owner has a real problem, then say there's a real problem and indicate some details. It's the "AP tries to kill me every time I engage it" comments that irk me. Or the "AP basically doesn't work" ones. For me, it basically works, and that's what I'm getting at.

I shot this on my way out to lunch right now. It's an S curve near my work that human drivers hate doing. I can't post the hour a day or whatever it is that I have it engaged, but it doesn't cross lane lines or drive into oncoming traffic. If it did, I would consider that a failure, but my car doesn't do that.