NIssan Leaf is a Better Car Than the Tesla Model 3?

[duanra]

Tesla as disrupted the industry by providing kickazz designs, kickazz tech and kickazz features. Other than Riven, who else is even going to sniff at market share away from Tesla?

Going to be very fun to watch, that's for sure.

Porsche maybe ?

 

[DWdrum]

Porsche maybe ?

yeh, for sure.. That concept is pretty badazz. I guess over all when you compare cost to features to barrier to entry to eco system...**sigh** .... Tesla has just killed it. I say we're minimum 3 to 5 years out before anyone can take them on.

Simply sharing an opinion.

 

[jjrandorin]

Back in February OP posted this 'one week review' on a LEAF forum


He has not seen fit to update his opinions after the Model 3 maintenance schedule was reduced to about the same as a LEAF, and he completely ignores the LEAF's lack of a TMS and abysmal DC charging network. Which probably goes to show that he is in rationalization mode now.

And yet, that is a TYPED review, posted on a board... unlike this one which is a video. OPs opinion are his own, and thus cant be "wrong" because they are his opinions... but like I said, I lose pretty much all interest or respect in a sensationalist title that then includes "here is this video I made explaining my position".

 

[C141medic]

And, of course, Tesla’s charging network is the elephant in the room. Folks usually don’t mention it but it’s the only game in town if you plan on traveling anywhere.

Absolutely. This is often overlooked by people when comparing EV’s. Tesla’s charging infrastructure makes traveling from point A to point B effortless. The distance between those two points are not relevant because (at least in the US and other countries) there are superchargers strategically placed as to not having to worry about range. There are actually a few good articles/videos about how much of a challenge it was traveling long distances with a Leaf. Thanks, but I’m keeping my Tesla.

 

[ammulder]

Though in fairness, there have also been articles recently about how fast Electrify America is installing DC fast charger locations. And the Supercharger network doesn't seem quite as dominant in other countries. I think someone in Canada posted here recently that their closest one without crossing into the US was 400 miles away? Or maybe it was a 4 hour drive? Something like that. I was pretty surprised.

Is Tesla Losing Its Supercharger Advantage?
Tesla Supercharger Supremacy In UK Soon To Be Lost To Gridserve? | CleanTechnica

So while it is huge to have the Supercharger network, I think it will get steadily less bad to travel with a non-Tesla EV. That is, assuming it has decent range to begin with.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Though in fairness, there have also been articles recently about how fast Electrify America is installing DC fast charger locations. And the Supercharger network doesn't seem quite as dominant in other countries. I think someone in Canada posted here recently that their closest one without crossing into the US was 400 miles away? Or maybe it was a 4 hour drive? Something like that. I was pretty surprised.

Is Tesla Losing Its Supercharger Advantage?
Tesla Supercharger Supremacy In UK Soon To Be Lost To Gridserve? | CleanTechnica

So while it is huge to have the Supercharger network, I think it will get steadily less bad to travel with a non-Tesla EV. That is, assuming it has decent range to begin with.

In BC Canada Chademo and CCS locations vastly outnumber Superchargers...at least 10 to 1. The main highway through the province is well served by Superchargers but off the main track a model 3 owner is limited to level 2. We love Tesla but without an adapter we won’t buy one.

 

[jkoya]

EVgo just opened some DC chargers near me and they charge 30 cents/minute (with a 45 minute session time) for pay as you go and 26 cents/minute if you pay their $7.99 a month membership fee. Electrify America has a $1.00 session fee and charges between 30 to 35 cents/minute depending on location (with a 40 cent/minute idle fee "if applicable"). Does Tesla Supercharging bill by the minute or by the kWh used ? I've only Supercharged once and I'm still under the free Supercharging period, so I was curious how it is billed.

I remember the early days when we had our 2012 Leaf and 2013 Honda Fit EV we carried around so many key chain cards for the different companies: chargepoint, blink, EVgo, Greenlots, City of Sac, etc. that I was envious of the Tesla Supercharging network.

 

[jjrandorin]

EVgo just opened some DC chargers near me and they charge 30 cents/minute (with a 45 minute session time) for pay as you go and 26 cents/minute if you pay their $7.99 a month membership fee. Electrify America has a $1.00 session fee and charges between 30 to 35 cents/minute depending on location (with a 40 cent/minute idle fee "if applicable"). Does Tesla Supercharging bill by the minute or by the kWh used ? I've only Supercharged once and I'm still under the free Supercharging period, so I was curious how it is billed.

I remember the early days when we had our 2012 Leaf and 2013 Honda Fit EV we carried around so many key chain cards for the different companies: chargepoint, blink, EVgo, Greenlots, City of Sac, etc. that I was envious of the Tesla Supercharging network.

Pretty sure Tesla superchargers charge mostly by the kWh, unless they cant due to local issues / restrictions.

=============================

Supercharging
(relevant excerpt below)

Supercharger stations are conveniently located near desirable amenities like restaurants, shops and WiFi hot spots. Each station contains multiple Superchargers to get you back on the road quickly.

Below are additional program details which apply to Tesla vehicles under the Supercharger program.

• All new Tesla vehicles require a fee to Supercharge.

• Where possible, owners are billed per kWh (kilowatt-hour), which is the most fair and simple method. In other areas, we bill for the service per minute.

 

[jkoya]

Thanks !

 

[Joshan]

Yugo beats them both!!

 

[ElectricLee]

The great thing about the Tesla Factory in Fremont and the Tesla Employee here is SF bay area... We have about 20-30 Supercharger locations within 150 miles. Plus we can use most of the other EV chargers as well. Just search 150 miles from Fremont, CA! So my point is, if you live in the SF bay area, the BEST choice is a Tesla Model 3.

 

[SwedishSTIle]

Would someone who promotes anti-vaxxing would be classified as only ignorant/misinformed?

There is a GRAVEYARD of Leafs at Carmax's around the country for 5000-7000. Something is up. For someone to just go off an say "there is no problem" - that warrants more than slap on the wrist.

Ok, so short answer is no, you cant read. Or perhapps you can, you are just incapable of engaging in civil interaction without COMPLETELY misinterpreting what everyone around you is saying.

Dude what kind of drugs are you on? I agree that the leaf is garbage, did you see my earlier post? I was questioning your baseless attacks and your construing another members post as meaning something only a deluded person would surmise.

and WTF do vaccines have to do with this thread? Are you equating vaccinating your kids to driving a leaf??


pause for effect...


My kids are vaccinated, but Those are the type of hilariously non-sequitur off the wall conclusions you draw in every post...Do you not see that?

 

[dhanson865]

Like you, my 2011 Leaf battery warranty was ending within a month and I was so close to the 8th Capacity bar that I left the leaf outside to bake in the sun for a little, that was enough to drop that Capacity bar and take it in for a new battery.

Fred

my 2012 are both used, one got a free battery at 35,000 miles the other didn't at 70,000 miles (same age different first owners). Miles didn't matter for losing capacity but they did for denying a free pack replacement under warranty.

So now one has 90% SOH on the 2nd battery and the other has 60% SOH on the first battery even though both are 2012 Leafs.

Absolutely no way I would have ever paid MSRP for either car. The only reason they were a decent deal for me was because I could buy them for 4 figures. If someone else hadn't eaten 2/3 to 3/4 of the cost of the car I wouldn't look twice at it.

The Model 3 is a car I could talk my self into paying for a new one. But at $35,000 to $40,000 It's 4-8 times the cost of a used leaf. Still, if you have the money the Tesla is the one I recommend first.

I still don't know if I'll buy a used Tesla or a new Tesla. That remains to be seen. As is I can drive this econobox that uses 200 wh/mile a bit longer until something changes and forces me to decide.

 

[lillyM3]

Actually, the video you mentioned failed to consider "vampire drain". The Nissan Leaf doesn't have "vampire drain" while the Tesla Model 3 does. Accounting for "vampire drain", the Nissan Leaf is more efficient than the Tesla Model 3.

I love my Tesla Model 3, BUT sometimes I regret buying it. My plumber took one look at my Model 3 and reneged on the agreed upon price to install a new water heater. He wanted more money because, "You drive a Tesla so you could afford it!" The A/C guy saw dollar signs in front of his eyes so I told him that my Model 3 belonged to a visiting friend.

I am considering doing this to my Tesla Model 3:

TFL Car did a video not to long ago comparing efficiency of the new Leaf and the Tesla. They ended up being roughly the same as far as efficiency goes but that's about it.
Tesla Model 3 Vs. Nissan Leaf Plus: Which Is More Efficient Driving Up A Mountain? Thrifty 3 Ep. 4 - The Fast Lane Car

and no this is not my youtube channel....LOL

 

[Kognos]

Actually, the video you mentioned failed to consider "vampire drain". The Nissan Leaf doesn't have "vampire drain" while the Tesla Model 3 does. Accounting for "vampire drain", the Nissan Leaf is more efficient than the Tesla Model 3.

Nissan Leaf is the product of a car company adopting the minimum standard for creating a car that happens to run on electricity. As such, it turns entirely off (or at least more "off" than Tesla cars). When you buy the car, it'll be the exact same car when you sell it.

Tesla cars are the product of a technology company which happens to make cars. As such you get software updates and technology features that far surpass Nissan. When you buy the car, you'll sell it with different features.

The efficiencies of the battery in the "running" condition should be the only real factor here. Vampire drain is real, but often times an excessive drain is the result of a 3rd party product from my view. This is a minor cost for the other benefits it provides. It's not like Nissan can offer COHP or sentry mode, for example... things that really drain but have actual practical value.

It's a fair trade, to me.

 

[TomT]

With no TMS, the Leaf will always be a non-starter for me!

 

[Kilotango74]

Actually, the video you mentioned failed to consider "vampire drain". The Nissan Leaf doesn't have "vampire drain" while the Tesla Model 3 does. Accounting for "vampire drain", the Nissan Leaf is more efficient than the Tesla Model 3.

I love my Tesla Model 3, BUT sometimes I regret buying it. My plumber took one look at my Model 3 and reneged on the agreed upon price to install a new water heater. He wanted more money because, "You drive a Tesla so you could afford it!" The A/C guy saw dollar signs in front of his eyes so I told him that my Model 3 belonged to a visiting friend.

I am considering doing this to my Tesla Model 3:

If you seriously had a plumber pull that crap then you need to rethink who does your work. Also the video I posted doesn’t mention vampire drain because that has nothing to do with illustrating efficiency during a single road trip. Maybe if we were talking over a weeks period.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Actually, the video you mentioned failed to consider "vampire drain". The Nissan Leaf doesn't have "vampire drain" while the Tesla Model 3 does. Accounting for "vampire drain", the Nissan Leaf is more efficient than the Tesla Model 3.

I love my Tesla Model 3, BUT sometimes I regret buying it. My plumber took one look at my Model 3 and reneged on the agreed upon price to install a new water heater. He wanted more money because, "You drive a Tesla so you could afford it!" The A/C guy saw dollar signs in front of his eyes so I told him that my Model 3 belonged to a visiting friend.

I am considering doing this to my Tesla Model 3:

Lmao...... It looks like one, might as well

 

[javawolfpack]

I'm nearly at 3 years on a Model S (gen 1 AP)... we got my wife the 2018 LEAF only 151mi range, vs the newer 215 mi range. We did this primarily as she pretty much never drives, and only around town if she does when it rains. We were hoping for the base 35K Model 3 + AP w/ the full federal incentive for this. We definitely would have been happier if this was possible last summer; however, it wasn't the case... I remembered how much I hate the experience of buying ICE vehicles in the process of getting our LEAF. There is only one Nissan dealer in town so unlike some on here, couldn't go to multiple places and get a wide variety of prices... but the MSRP is never what the vehicle actually is sold for. I came in with three estimates for what the price should be for the config we wanted (base LEAF w/ Pro Pilot, as I struggle to drive vehicles w/ out adaptive cruise now)... and they beat the prices, so that was about the only positive.

That said for us the positives were:

• about 22K after incentives
• has adaptive cruise/pro-pilot (it is far far worse than even my gen 1 AP)
• good enough for occasional use around town (maybe 10 miles/day when used)
• Has Android Auto support (my wife doesn't use it but I like it)
• 0% APR loan

Negatives:

• No thermal management for the batteries
• No way to set a charge limit (like only charge to 80%), it only provides a timer function and it's glitchy
• The app is ridiculously slow, like I've waited nearly 5 minutes to get a what the current charge on the car info back and in that time could have walked to the car and manually checked
• They want you to subscribe for the full suite of app features (not sure what those are, as we honestly just use it to check the battery level)
• So many buttons, you don't realize how much you really enjoy the minimal Tesla experience until you get back into cars with so many buttons
• Some features are still buried in their touch screen UI and they're near impossible to find.

I'm taking delivery of a Model 3 on Friday to replace my Model S, which has its lease run out in August on Friday... and our long term plan is to replace the LEAF with another Tesla once we've paid off both the 3 & LEAF in 4 years. As I don't expect the LEAF to be as functional for us long term... but I fully expect the Model 3 should be functional for over a decade or longer.

 

[artsci]

Is this a serious question or a joke?