Octopus Energy, including Intelligent and go

[Drew57]

On the two occasions (in nearly 3 years) I have been with Octopus they resolved small issues very promptly & both times put a credit on my account as a goodwill gesture (one was significantly greater than the original billing error).

Contact via Twitter has resulted in a response which is usually within a few hours, never later than 12 hours or so.

Comparing this with any providers I have used previously, they have been exceptional, especially considering the huge numbers of new customers that have been transferred to them.

 

[Pink Duck]

3 days 16 hours on, they’re still calculating Saving Sessions result for the 22nd Nov. The time before (Tue 15th) emails were sent out mid-afternoon on Saturday 4 days later (with incorrect points totals for those receiving 10% bonus). Surely it can’t take too long to calculate over the set of ~300,000 customers and have National Grid audit a selection from various providers in a timely fashion. I note OVO’s Power Move scheme isn’t listed there.

 

[browellm]

3 days 16 hours on, they’re still calculating Saving Sessions result for the 22nd Nov. The time before (Tue 15th) emails were sent out mid-afternoon on Saturday 4 days later (with incorrect points totals for those receiving 10% bonus). Surely it can’t take too long to calculate over the set of ~300,000 customers and have National Grid audit a selection from various providers in a timely fashion.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1596248250406694913

 

[Pink Duck]

Obviously some must have be practising their Safe Savings Sessions activities a bit too close to the Smart Meter

 

[Skie]

Looking at loop, we used 30kwh in the 4 hour window and 0.4kwh during the saving window. Hoping they’re taking so long because my octopoints haul will be huge

And yes the oven is spotless now

 

[NewbieT]

4 hours! Eek, you wasted some. Only needs 3 hours.

 

[ACarneiro]

Aren’t you guys sort of defeating the whole point of the exercise?

 

[Drew57]

I have no idea what these 3 hour-4 hour comments mean?!

I just switch my house to run on the batteries during that one hour period & leave it at that. If I save money great but the main thing is that I’m trying to give a tiny bit of help to the grid when needed.

 

[Whyone]

Likewise, we just shut the house down during the saving session....I do feel that 'gaming' the system is beyond the pale.

 

[deeqs]

I have no idea what these 3 hour-4 hour comments mean?!

I just switch my house to run on the batteries during that one hour period & leave it at that. If I save money great but the main thing is that I’m trying to give a tiny bit of help to the grid when needed.

The calculation used to work out savings (as defined by the scheme rules) uses the previous 9 days average over the savings period (split into a Mon-Fri, or Weekend, depending on the saving period). There is then an in day adjustment, to account for any load shifting you make on the day. Cooking dinner early, washing machine etc. The previous avg is combined with the in day adjustment to calculate your saving.

The in day adjustment is the 3 hours preceding the start period minus 1 hour. I.e if the savings period is 6-7, then 2-5 is the adjustment window. If you purposefully use more than normal in that window, you will earn more savings.

 

[Drew57]

The calculation used to work out savings (as defined by the scheme rules) uses the previous 9 days average over the savings period (split into a Mon-Fri, or Weekend, depending on the saving period). There is then an in day adjustment, to account for any load shifting you make on the day. Cooking dinner early, washing machine etc. The previous avg is combined with the in day adjustment to calculate your saving.

The in day adjustment is the 3 hours preceding the start period minus 1 hour. I.e if the savings period is 6-7, then 2-5 is the adjustment window. If you purposefully use more than normal in that window, you will earn more savings.

Thanks, I think I get it now. I guess the people who created this process didn’t factor that this would happen

Let’s hope that loophole is closed soon. People like us who can afford such expensive cars should surely be helping the grid & ultimately reducing costs for all rather than gaining just for ourselves.

 

[HCassidy]

Sorry for jumping in, but I have been told by someone there is a way to game the system on Intelligent by reducing the charging current to increase the time in which intelligent is active. How exactly does this work?

 

[Pink Duck]

Having a reduced charging currently doesn't necessarily mean anything is being gamed, it may just be another overheating 1st-gen UMC adapter that resulted in the need to use 3-pin, or making current available for other devices such as heat pump. With the Savings Sessions there’s not all that much discernible difference between genuine users shifting load earlier in the day and myself, doing similarly, but in a more technically aware way. Plus the first two trials were staggered by 30 minutes, so the next might be 18:00–19:00, or 17:00–19:00, or something else.

 

[NewbieT]

Sorry for jumping in, but I have been told by someone there is a way to game the system on Intelligent by reducing the charging current to increase the time in which intelligent is active. How exactly does this work?

I’m not on IO so happy to be wrong.
Reducing the current will increase the charging time needed. Octopus might allocate you more/additional cheap hours outside of 11:30-5:30 because your car ‘needs’ them to get to you desired SoC and because it’s cheaper for Octopus to have you charge then. Whereas if your car was charged in just 1h it might not allocate the additional slots.

Of course, if you get additional slots, the whole house is billed at those lower rates.

 

[Skie]

IO calculates your charging time by taking into account the type of charger you have and the size of the battery in your car. I suspect it also applies a bit of a fudge factor to account for slightly reduced charging rates*. You specify this when signing up. You could lie and say you only have a granny charger when you really have a 3 phase wall connector but that could be classed as gaining by deception which isn’t just against the t&cs, it’s fraud.

*Ive got a single phase WC that was setup with a slightly lower amperage limit because the gauge of my old, long run of underground armoured cable is just below what the spark was comfortable with handling 32 amps. IO won’t know this but my charge never fails to complete in the windows allotted.

 

[DaveNN]

Octopus are at ours this week to fit the smart meter.
Whilst we are likely to go to IO, it's not cut and dried.
Our wall box has been playing up and would not factory reset. I've unlinked it and is now dumb. AFAIK it won't make much of a difference to my charging. Playing the game hasn't really occurred to me, as we won't be getting up at 3am to put another load in the washing machine.
My 10kw of batteries will charge within the 6 hrs, so that'll take us to midday + whatever solar we get.

 

[cryo]

Why would anyone seriously gaming the system think Octopus would not be aware? Octopus are data gathering/analysis specialists which means you are taking a very high risk for a very small gain. If you were removed from a beta tariff with no comeback for abusing the concession you would not have a leg to stand on as Octopus would possess all the data and could easily present it in a way that could justify their decision to the ombudsman if you complained. These tariffs are not a legal right they are given effectively as a concession and nothing more that benefits the two parties once this mutual benefit is abused by one of the parties the concession can easily be removed with no appeal.

 

[Pink Duck]

Octopus aren't immune from gaming things from their own side either, such as putting IO rates up while switching to join through the usual secondary tariff trick that the ombudsman would be on your side for, which is why without prompt they offer compensation payment immediately when complaining, to avoid paying out the full difference. Per my previous message, it’s not even possible to demonstrate with data alone that intentional rule breaking is going on. I would expect an investigation though into any notable differences such as very high demand above EV coinciding with off-peak across lengthy timeframes.

 

[DaveNN]

Bit of a delay setting up IO
Looks like the meter is struggling with its comms.
Going through the car set up and keep hitting a brick wall..
I'm sure it'll fix itself.

 

[cryo]

Octopus aren't immune from gaming things from their own side either, such as putting IO rates up while switching to join through the usual secondary tariff trick that the ombudsman would be on your side for, which is why without prompt they offer compensation payment immediately when complaining, to avoid paying out the full difference. Per my previous message, it’s not even possible to demonstrate with data alone that intentional rule breaking is going on. I would expect an investigation though into any notable differences such as very high demand above EV coinciding with off-peak across lengthy timeframes.

I suspect you have little experience of modern data gathering/analysis systems which by necessity are run by many supply, billing and cost agencies. There is little you cannot show with data analysis as you do not have to prove but only show the regular intention to defraud. But that is irrelevant as Octopus can remove you from go or intelligent at their whim as they are concession beta tariffs nothing more. They are not legally binding tariffs from either the supplier or customer's contract.