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Off topic galore
- Thread starter Mengy
- Start date
Herbert, Herbert, Herbert, either it's required OR it's redundant.
Longer answer:
Only way? What about... 2 cameras???
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
-Oscar Wilde
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
1978 Ford F100 Eluminator Concept Vehicle | Jay Leno's Garage
Ford sells a Mach-E crate motor for $4K, here a 2-motor Retromod project done by Ford themselves.
Ford sells a Mach-E crate motor for $4K, here a 2-motor Retromod project done by Ford themselves.
I've only owned a Tesla since late 2019, but I've experienced phantom braking almost every time I use TACC (which is hardly ever now). In the UK it seems to affect a lot of owners but there are still some who don't seem to suffer from it and I don't understand that at all.
I'm sure it will be fixed at some point and then maybe I'll use TACC more regularly.
Yes, these issues need fixing but I'm not always convinced the best way is to file a complaint with the NHTSA, DVSA or whoever, unless it's a really serious safety issue.
This is so frustrating. It’s one of my favorite features of the car, damned near magic. But I hear a number of people who have recurring issues with this and as with you, get frustrated and stop using it entirely. I really want to shout out to the world how damned good Autopilot is, but I hesitate because for 1 out of XX people, it’s utter crap and Tesla doesn’t seem to have a fix for them.
“This features is awesome for 80% of people who buy it!” Just doesn’t sound like a good sell. (You can insert whatever percentage you want there, I haven’t researched the specifics).
I’ve been seeing these phantom braking anecdotes from tesla owners for years - why hasn’t tesla fixed it already? what is surprising abut todays announcement of a safety investigation around the issue is that it hasn’t happened sooner.
Likely because it is a non-issue for the most part when you are used to it and defuse it with the accelerator. The overall value of autopilot / fsd is still so immense that it just drops into the background and you are just grateful and happy that it works as ,much as it does. This of course does not at all help new buyers that did not acquire the skill over time. Presumably decision makers on the software engineering team have enough income and test vehicles available to them to have too much exposure to understand the gravity to newcomers.
First year and a half my 2020 M3P stealth never did it. Then beginning the last 3-4 months of 2021 it started happening constantly. I can only assume one of the updates threw more bias to the visual side vs radar... or something like that.
Forget the media, even without that, the issue is the kind that causes the negative word of mouth that hurts sales. Elon will fix it, but ... when and how? Been going on awhile now.
As to "getting used to it”? maybe, but my wife will never.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Unexpected braking is inherent to all adaptive cruise systems- from all brands.
There's at least 2 ongoing threads about this, and mostly boil down to the same thing over and over
Some rando: OMG TESLA PHANTOM BRAKING! I NEVER HAD ANY SUCH ISSUE WITH BRAND X
Then someone posts links to a bunch of unexpected braking complaints from brand X- to point out this isn't a tesla specific thing. In fact it's often worse, and unlike Tesla has actual accidents and injuries reported for the brand.
They refuse to accept this fact because it disagrees with their personal experience.
Then a bit later another person chimes in saying they never had problems with brand Y.
And of course someone then posts examples from brand Y with the problem too.
Rinse and repeat.
I drive 20-25 rental cars a year. Never had it with any of them. I can assure you Tesla is a special case.
thesmokingman
Active Member
True that. It's funny cuz like... threads like this wouldn't exist if it wasn't an issue on other vehicles.
Unfortunately, that's not the case for me. My 2015 Model S 70D, 2018 LMR Model 3, and my 2019 LR Model 3 rarely, if ever, had phantom braking issues. But, my wife's new 2022 Model Y LR that we picked up 2 weeks ago is horrible. There are lots of occasions where it will just suddenly slow, with no shadows or bridges in sight, but the worst was last week when I was using AP on a 55 mph non-divided secondary road. Twice I had 18-wheelers coming toward me in the other lane and the Model Y threw on the brakes really hard and sounded the collision warning. It was very unnerving. The trucks were in their own lane, never swerved toward my lane, but the Model Y saw them as a threat. If it had happened to my wife she would have had a fit and maybe refused to drive it again, but fortunately she never uses TACC or AP. The previous cars all had radar, this one does not. Coincidence?
PSATrue that. It's funny cuz like... threads like this wouldn't exist if it wasn't an issue on other vehicles.
Subaru exclusively uses Mobileye, which, like other AI companies, was bought by Intel. And Tesla used for AP1, going to AP2 with nVidia and now homegrown inference chip. CEO of Mobileye, Amnon, was/is a huge proponent of vision, radar and lidar fusion.
I'd rather talk about the ghosting in the engineering thread though as it is complex subject and that is why the problem persists with some builds being better/worse than others.
The investigation today cites a sharp increase in official complaints made in the last few months about the issue - perhaps that may correspond with radar being removed from new vehicles?
Maybe, but couldnt it also be that more and more vehicles are being delivered. So Fremont made more vehicles then ever in 2021 and I think nearly all of them went to US customers. So far more customers in past year compared to previous year. More cars, more instances of phantom breaking.
I've experienced it once where it approximately slammed on the brakes at highway speed for no reason at all. I don't care at all about little slowdowns of a few MPH for random reasons which I think is what often might be referred to as phantom braking, but this was like 70->35 about as fast as possible. It is extremely jarring and while yes you can obviously take over, it's very sudden and aggressive. After that experience I found that my heightened concern of it happening again and staying prepared for such an event made the experience of using autopilot so much less relaxing and helpful. That combined with lots of bad lane change aborts and alerts on 3 lane highways when changing from the left lane to the middle with a semi truck in the right line (the car can't decide which lane the truck is in) made me generally stop using autopilot, which is a shame because when it works well it's really great. The lane change issue is reproducible in both my 3 and Y, and the service techs said it's a known problem. My hope is that the unified FSD stack will help with that one.
Maybe because its not a safety issue? I say that somewhat wryly. Any conversation about the safety of autopilot should begin with statistics. And get this, it never does. Elon has said many times that cars driving on autopilot are much safer than when humans are driving. I forget the actual figures but they are compelling. Fewer accidents, fewer injuries, fewer fatalities. However, whenever the issue of autopilot arises, it is always based on anecdotal, albeit real cases, but there is never any context in terms of its safety record. Ever.
My car suffers from phantom braking occasionally and it annoys me, but it hasn't caused an accident, not even a near miss. Yes it needs fixing, but the disproportionate attention this gets is because its Tesla.
So the software fix for phantom braking is to cancel WaPo?
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