Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging

[aviators99]

Where does Tesla state this?

I said "allegedly" because it's been stated in this thread that Tesla said this.

 

[apacheguy]

I spoke with an extremely knowledgeable and credible Tesla person today. I cannot say who and I cannot give details until Tesla officially responds (soon). For now:

0) The issue is real
1) Some car's hardware is the issue
2) Tesla knows they need to communicate this; a big plan is in the works
3) in my opinion, more of those affected speaking out constructively now will affect the response/outcome

@vger - Can your source provide us with any insight as to what happened to the "big plan?" Judging that you posted this over a month ago and a plan has failed to materialize I'm guessing someone poured cold water over it.

For the record, my car is in for service and I cannot for the life of me get them to admit there is a hardware limitation. They insist that my car can access the full maximum potential of the current supercharger standard. Figures...

 

[Gear]

@vger - Can your source provide us with any insight as to what happened to the "big plan?" Judging that you posted this over a month ago and a plan has failed to materialize I'm guessing someone poured cold water over it.

For the record, my car is in for service and I cannot for the life of me get them to admit there is a hardware limitation. They insist that my car can access the full maximum potential of the current supercharger standard. Figures...

Sounds like you need to take one of the service guys, maybe the service manager, to lunch in Hawthorne.

 

[aviators99]

@vger - Can your source provide us with any insight as to what happened to the "big plan?" Judging that you posted this over a month ago and a plan has failed to materialize I'm guessing someone poured cold water over it.

For the record, my car is in for service and I cannot for the life of me get them to admit there is a hardware limitation. They insist that my car can access the full maximum potential of the current supercharger standard. Figures...

For the record, he said:

2) Tesla knows they need to communicate this; a big plan is in the works

I think the "big plan" was to send out that communication with the "4 minutes", etc.

 

[tomsax]

Very inaccurate data doesn't do anyone any good. More inaccurate data is definitely not better, in fact it makes things worse as people freak out for nothing.

That's my point, there is no easy balancing procedure. Your average user is not going to figure any of this out.

If the best information that drivers have says they have lost range, that's a problem even if the range can be restored by some little-known process, especially if that process may actually harm the pack. As I've said before, if doing full Trip mode charges balances the pack, that will show up in the survey since that is also being collected.

 

[Trnsl8r]

I know this might be little consolation to those (like me) that were early adopters and are now missing out on the higher charge rate, but I found this exercise helpful.

Go to Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors and pretend you're buying your car again. Ignore the options that weren't available then, but click everything else you did get. Don't forget the stuff you got that weren't options back then, like ambient lighting, leather in the doors, and fog lights, etc. Go for the HPWC even if you only got twin chargers since it wasn't force bundled back then. Compare the priced out current car to what you paid for your car (don't forget to adjust for the $7500 tax credit).

When I did this, I found that buying "my" car today would have cost me roughly $12,000 more than it did then.

Yeah, maybe off-topic, and yes maybe I'll wait 4-20 min more at the supercharger, but I have no regrets.

 

[aviators99]

I know this might be little consolation to those (like me) that were early adopters and are now missing out on the higher charge rate, but I found this exercise helpful.

Go to Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors and pretend you're buying your car again. Ignore the options that weren't available then, but click everything else you did get. Don't forget the stuff you got that weren't options back then, like ambient lighting, leather in the doors, and fog lights, etc. Go for the HPWC even if you only got twin chargers since it wasn't force bundled back then. Compare the priced out current car to what you paid for your car (don't forget to adjust for the $7500 tax credit).

When I did this, I found that buying "my" car today would have cost me roughly $12,000 more than it did then.

Yeah, maybe off-topic, and yes maybe I'll wait 4-20 min more at the supercharger, but I have no regrets.

I would gladly pay $12,000 to swap packs with someone with a "B" pack right now. Just PM me.

 

[Trnsl8r]

I would gladly pay $12,000 to swap packs with someone with a "B" pack right now. Just PM me.

OK, now I wish I had a "B" pack...

 

[Gear]

I would gladly pay $12,000 to swap packs with someone with a "B" pack right now. Just PM me.

I'll take you up on that!

 

[neroden]

The diagnostics mode has this info, but is only accessible to SC. We need an advanced user menu.

Do we have any Massachusetts owners here? Massachusetts Right to Repair | The official coalition site

A Massachusetts owner should be able to get the diagnostics mode access info out of Tesla. If Tesla causes trouble, there are legal remedies.

 

[apacheguy]

A Massachusetts owner should be able to get the diagnostics mode access info out of Tesla. If Tesla causes trouble, there are legal remedies.

Maybe I should move to Massachusetts. I can't get ANY diagnostic info out of them. While trying to verify a claim from the engineering department that they were "unable to reproduce" my 90 kW limitation I asked them to pull the logs from the supercharge session and compare them to the data I had provided. They said sorry, this info is proprietary and we can't disclose it. Ugh.

 

[JRP3]

So does that mean they were able to charge your car above 90kW? And they won't even look at the data they have from the SC session, even if they don't share it with you?

 

[Vger]

@vger - Can your source provide us with any insight as to what happened to the "big plan?" Judging that you posted this over a month ago and a plan has failed to materialize I'm guessing someone poured cold water over it.

For the record, my car is in for service and I cannot for the life of me get them to admit there is a hardware limitation. They insist that my car can access the full maximum potential of the current supercharger standard. Figures...

Well, sheepishly, I must say that the employee in question must have been more optimistic than specific about the nature of HQ's commitment to communicate. My contact was just as concerned as me. I do suspect that some sort of cold water pouring occurred, since Tesla realized this was a large potential liability.

It is really shocking to me that some field personnel are still denying the problem, when Jerome Guillen himself has clearly acknowledged it. Have you shown your local people the Jerome email many of us got? Did you get that email?

 

[aviators99]

I'll take you up on that!

I guess I should have specified that it has to be an 85kWh...but otherwise I'm serious.

 

[Gear]

I guess I should have specified that it has to be an 85kWh...but otherwise I'm serious.

Darn!


PS, I knew you meant 85kWh. I was just trying to be funny.

 

[aviators99]

Darn!


PS, I knew you meant 85kWh. I was just trying to be funny.

Yeah, I figured!

 

[apacheguy]

So does that mean they were able to charge your car above 90kW? And they won't even look at the data they have from the SC session, even if they don't share it with you?

Exactly, that would be the logical conclusion however my service advisor wasn't provided with any charge rate data from engineering. Engineering said that it took the car 32 minutes to charge from 83 rated miles to max range SOC. I said that I find that incredibly difficult to believe and could they please verify it. I launched a separate inquiry with ownership to pull the logs and was then told my request was denied.

It is really shocking to me that some field personnel are still denying the problem, when Jerome Guillen himself has clearly acknowledged it. Have you shown your local people the Jerome email many of us got? Did you get that email?

I have never received ANY written or verbal statement from Tesla regarding the 90 kW limitation despite me having contacted them several times. I told service that several other owners have collected an abundance of data to demonstrate this. They said they didn't know who I had talked to, but I was clearly misinformed.

 

[aviators99]

Exactly, that would be the logical conclusion however my service advisor wasn't provided with any charge rate data from engineering. Engineering said that it took the car 32 minutes to charge from 83 rated miles to max range SOC. I said that I find that incredibly difficult to believe and could they please verify it. I launched a separate inquiry with ownership to pull the logs and was then told my request was denied.



I have never received ANY written or verbal statement from Tesla regarding the 90 kW limitation despite me having contacted them several times. I told service that several other owners have collected an abundance of data to demonstrate this. They said they didn't know who I had talked to, but I was clearly misinformed.

Tell them, "That's great. If I was misinformed, please send me an e-mail that says that if mine is limited to 90kW you will fix it under warranty"

 

[FlasherZ]

A Massachusetts owner should be able to get the diagnostics mode access info out of Tesla. If Tesla causes trouble, there are legal remedies.

See the Massachusetts Act, which says:

Section 2. (a) Except as provided in subsection (e), for model year 2002 motor vehicles and thereafter and model year 2013 heavy duty vehicles and thereafter, a manufacturer of motor vehicles sold in the commonwealth shall make available for purchase by owners of motor vehicles manufactured by such manufacturer and by independent repair facilities the same diagnostic and repair information, including repair technical updates, that such manufacturer makes available to its dealers through the manufacturer’s internet-based diagnostic and repair information system or other electronically accessible manufacturer’s repair information system.

[...]

(c) (1) For model year 2002 motor vehicles and thereafter and model year 2013 heavy duty vehicles and thereafter, each manufacturer of motor vehicles sold in the commonwealth shall make available for purchase by owners and independent repair facilities all diagnostic repair tools incorporating the same diagnostic, repair and wireless capabilities that such manufacturer makes available to its dealers.

Dealer is defined as:

“Dealer”, any person or business who, in the ordinary course of its business, sells or leases new motor vehicles to consumers or other end users pursuant to a franchise agreement and who has obtained a class 1 license pursuant to sections 58 and 59 of chapter 140 and diagnoses, services, maintains or repairs motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines pursuant to said franchise agreement.

Tesla does not make repair information available to dealers because it has no dealers; by definition, service centers do not apply because they are not subject to a franchise agreement. The law does not apply to Tesla because Tesla does not have "dealers" by definition of the law.

In addition:

Section 3. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require a manufacturer to divulge a trade secret.

Tesla can certainly argue that its technology is a trade secret, and that because they are not using traditional technology in the car, they are fully exempt anyway.

 

[ken830]

I know this might be little consolation to those (like me) that were early adopters and are now missing out on the higher charge rate, but I found this exercise helpful.

Go to Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors and pretend you're buying your car again. Ignore the options that weren't available then, but click everything else you did get. Don't forget the stuff you got that weren't options back then, like ambient lighting, leather in the doors, and fog lights, etc. Go for the HPWC even if you only got twin chargers since it wasn't force bundled back then. Compare the priced out current car to what you paid for your car (don't forget to adjust for the $7500 tax credit).

When I did this, I found that buying "my" car today would have cost me roughly $12,000 more than it did then.

Yeah, maybe off-topic, and yes maybe I'll wait 4-20 min more at the supercharger, but I have no regrets.

It's no consolation at all because there are people who bought cars before me (pre-April) and paid the same (85kWh) or less (60kWh) and still got newer battery packs that are capable of charging at a higher rate.