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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Print out a copy of the email that has been posted in this thread and hand it to them.
ModelS8794
Member
How many times have you brought up the notion of suing Tesla on this forum?
I hope I never have cause to harbor such sentiment towards the people I do business with.
To those formulating a response to Tesla, I'd like to point out:
1) Suggesting a for-cost upgrade to 120 is counter-productive -- it sounds like saying "OK, fine, if you let me pay (a lot of) money then I'm OK with the fact that the VIN next to me doesn't have to pay" ... and it ignores the Sigs (for what they are) and the Sig hardware upgrade promise. And probably other reasons but I'll stop there.
2) We can't possibly know the extent of options Tesla has so I think, in this case, to suggest one does ourselves a disservice.
IMO this less about the actual upgrade itself than it is about how Tesla treated and continues to treat its customers WRT these changes (Jerome's dismissive statement, which looks like it's a corporate-wide statement now). I personally feel alienated from Tesla from actions like this. Normally I'd let a company shoot themselves in the foot and go somewhere else but a) this is more important than me or Tesla and b) there's nowhere else to go right now.
1) Suggesting a for-cost upgrade to 120 is counter-productive -- it sounds like saying "OK, fine, if you let me pay (a lot of) money then I'm OK with the fact that the VIN next to me doesn't have to pay" ... and it ignores the Sigs (for what they are) and the Sig hardware upgrade promise. And probably other reasons but I'll stop there.
2) We can't possibly know the extent of options Tesla has so I think, in this case, to suggest one does ourselves a disservice.
IMO this less about the actual upgrade itself than it is about how Tesla treated and continues to treat its customers WRT these changes (Jerome's dismissive statement, which looks like it's a corporate-wide statement now). I personally feel alienated from Tesla from actions like this. Normally I'd let a company shoot themselves in the foot and go somewhere else but a) this is more important than me or Tesla and b) there's nowhere else to go right now.
SUPRKAR
Member
I'm sorry but regardless to how you feel you do not deserve a new battery for this reason that is not at least prorated for the miles you have used.
Yeah, those of you that got an A-battery in April... months after the B-battery was rolled out... that's BS, I agree.
What if it turns out to be true that A batteries "use" (i.e. decrease in range) at 2.5 times the amount that the new batteries do? Does that mean I have to pay at that 2.5x rate?
I have lost about 8kWh of capacity from my battery, how do you prorate that? Is that 9% of a 85kWh battery at a cost of 55k, or $4,950? Is that 8kWh * $200/kWh -> $1,600? It seems like there are a awful lot of assumptions being made without a lot of the knowledge that only Tesla has.
Peter
I have lost about 8kWh of capacity from my battery, how do you prorate that? Is that 9% of a 85kWh battery at a cost of 55k, or $4,950? Is that 8kWh * $200/kWh -> $1,600? It seems like there are a awful lot of assumptions being made without a lot of the knowledge that only Tesla has.
Peter
I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but how do you know you have actual battery degradation, and not just an out of balance pack? Many people here stubbornly just chalk up their loss of rated miles to degradation, without first trying to balance their pack.
I can tell you from experience that multiple range charges will add rated miles, AND charging to below 90% will throw your pack out of balance. The slider was most likely implemented so that the EPA range would remain at 265 or 208, instead of an average of the standard/range mode like the Rav4 EV. Anyway, others in your shoes have tried nothing but range charges for a while, and got back over 260 rated miles.
While I understand that you don't wish to give my knowledge any credence as we seem to have this regularly come up... I know because I have taken extensive data on my battery pack since new. Furthermore I have a very clear understanding how multi-cell BMS systems run, as I have designed a few in my own designs, about half of which are battery operated. Tesla's system does monitor how out of balance that pack is, and yes when it is out of balance it will re-balance and the range will come up. My cumulative loss is not an out of balance pack unless the manor that it is out of balance is invisible to Tesla's monitoring.
Furthermore, I would suggest anyone think twice before setting their car to 100% and just letting it sit there (as you seem to suggest). That is simply the best way to actually cause the degradation that we wish to avoid.
Since Tesla doesn't offer any guarantees about degradation, it's always been a concern of mine. If it turns out A packs have a significantly worse degradation than B packs, that's going to absolutely kill the used price on A models.
However, degradation curves aren't usually straight lines, so it'll take a few years to really know how they compare.
However, degradation curves aren't usually straight lines, so it'll take a few years to really know how they compare.
What are the highest and lowest voltage readings of each module(there are six readings per module)?
While doing what I suggested above is not that great for your battery, it's about the only quick way of balancing a Tesla pack. Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with an out of balance pack, so balancing it for the sake of balancing is not that intelligent, but if someone must balance their pack, either that, or strictly 120V charging(and letting it finish and sit in 90% mode) over a period of several months are about your only options. The Roadster didn't really suffer from this pack unbalance, as the only charging modes that most people used were standard/range. Tesla didn't recommend the storage mode as a daily charging mode, because of this very reason. Some people did, and guess what? Their packs got out of balance, and Tesla recommended they charge in range mode and let the car sit.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Doing it occasionally should have little long term effect, especially if it brings the pack into balance.
Have you tried complete consecutive range charges?
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Exactly, and to add further to this, keeping a pack in balance is much easier than charging to say 50%, and then after a long time of that, trying to balance your pack.
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