Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[pcons]

Wow you’re a real joy to be around aren’t you.

Fee real lucky to have canceled my order because Tesla never communicated ANYTHING to us 500 affected people about what is happening. And then in the meantime find out that they decided to sue the govt and seemingly won potentially making my now cancelled order eligible for the rebate.

I kind of know what you feel like...not exactly the same, but I decided to go AWD since there was, in my opinion at the time, very little chance of the rebate deadline being changed. When the decision came yesterday, I felt a pit in my stomach for a bit, because I thought "my 5k AWD upgrade just became a 20k upgrade. If I had just risked it and ordered RWD...."

But there is no predicting the future, and I'm not sure if tesla saying they were suing would have changed my mind at the time. It's easy to armchair quarterback but I don't think many people actually expected the legal action to be sorted out this quickly.

On the flip side, if tesla had said "we are taking Ford to court and we feel we have a strong case", but then lost the court case, I'm sure anyone who kept their orders would be totally freaking out.

They did the ''safe" thing by not divulging the lawsuit until it was filed....in actuality, they probably had their lawyers write it all up, then management made a final call on whether to file it at the last minute. I'm sure they had internal debates on whether they should pursue the court case, and if that's true you can't really expect them to make public statements about things they hadn't fully decided on yet....

Either way, 24h later, I'm still at peace with my AWD decision. I think you have to ask yourself; would you be happier keeping your order and not getting the rebate, or not getting the car, and having the rebate come back for a ~2 week window. Tough call, but I expect most people would chose the latter.

 

[Abrew2014]

I kind of know what you feel like...not exactly the same, but I decided to go AWD since there was, in my opinion at the time, very little chance of the rebate deadline being changed. When the decision came yesterday, I felt a pit in my stomach for a bit, because I thought "my 5k AWD upgrade just became a 20k upgradef. If I had just risked it and ordered RWD...."

But there is no predicting the future, and I'm not sure if tesla saying they were suing would have changed my mind at the time. It's easy to armchair quarterback but I don't think many people actually expected the legal action to be sorted out this quickly.

On the flip side, if tesla had said "we are taking Ford to court and we feel we have a strong case", but then lost the court case, I'm sure anyone who kept their orders would be totally freaking out.

They did the ''safe" thing by not divulging the lawsuit until it was filed....in actuality, they probably had their lawyers write it all up, then management made a final call on whether to file it at the last minute. I'm sure they had internal debates on whether they should pursue the court case, and if that's true you can't really expect them to make public statements about things they hadn't fully decided on yet....

Either way, 24h later, I'm still at peace with my AWD decision. I think you have to ask yourself; would you be happier keeping your order and not getting the rebate, or not getting the car, and having the rebate come back for a ~2 week windiw. Tough call, but I expect most people would chose the latter.

I'm at peace with my purchase of the Ford Fusion Energi and have enjoyed the drive, I think overall its a better decision financially for me anyways.

Just amazed at how poor the Tesla customer service experience....I was so excited when I ordered this car, I spent probably 100 hours this summer learning everything about electric cars and Tesla and reading forums and waiting for a VIN. I thought if they can build the car of the future, they must be able to email information to a customer no? They can get a car to drive itself but they make their customers wait on the phone for an hour a time to talk to someone. And that someone generally has little information

 

[Abrew2014]

You wanted a form letter lol?

That "form letter" has information that you could only learn by looking at a forum on a website....not available on their website, not being told the same thing by people on the phone...one person says cancel now or else, one person says wait until you have to

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Genuine question here, but can't the many negative statements Doug Ford has said on video about Tesla and only Tesla be used as proof that he has a grudge against them as a company and can be seen as him inflicting his personal bias on matters of policy?

Huh, so it turns out his statements did come back to bite him in the ass.

Reevely: Ontario's loss on Tesla rebates shows hazard of governing by B.S.

How about that @adaptabl ?

 

[Harrta]

I'm glad you aren't getting one you just would have pissed and moaned about something else.

 

[puzz1ed]

Allow me to summarize what he wrote:

...

He did this specifically because it is not in his power to erase a line from the transition plan. It is in his power to garbage it, however, which is what happened.

At this point, I am almost entirely certain that we will be getting the rebate.

Thanks for the insightful summation.

So Justice Myers quashed the transition plan in line [65] of the ruling. Since he can't change the transition plan, doesn't that imply that we should arrive today as if the plan (i.e. cancellation) was never in force? The government will most likely come out with a new plan but not necessarily retroactive.

Still holding out hope for an AWD rebate.

 

[Abrew2014]

I'm glad you aren't getting one you just would have pissed and moaned about something else.

Welcome to the Tesla Motor Club, very friendly

Doug Ford should get you to play the elitist Tesla Owner in his next election ads, would win in another landslide!

 

[Canuck]

My mea culpa: I sure predicted wrong on this one! Well, perhaps I am admitting I was wrong too early since the decision does say that what the government did was legal but the manner in which they did it was discriminatory to Tesla, and if the gov't can find a way to make it non-discriminatory then it will still apply. But how can the gov't possibly do that? I guess that's what the gov't is mulling over now, as well as an appeal, but I bet the gov't decides it's best to just pay (process the rebates) and move on, or at least I hope so for all of you who may get it. Good luck!

 

[Abrew2014]

I'm glad you aren't getting one you just would have pissed and moaned about something else.

"I don't want you to have one of OUR CARS.....you are whiny and want crazy things like customer service...and communication"

 

[KEvans]

Look, for what it’s worth, I basically spent my summer vacation fighting for this rebate. I actively engaged on social media with the province and PC apologists on a daily basis. I reached out to every ministry I could contact. I collected and sent a considerable amount of information to the Ombudsman.

When I thought the rebate was gone, I began a long process of cataloging my childhood comic and 80’s toys collection, promising my wife that I’d sell them - and my personal collection of RPG books (I am an epic gaming nerd), if necessary, to cover the difference in what we lost on the rebate if I had to. I did all that because I desperately want this car. I believe it’s the best choice for my family long term.

I also called Tesla about a dozen times, and never got a consistent answer. I finally proactively reached out to Tesla administrators and other individuals other than Elon who endeavoured to help me, but never provided me with an answer as to what to expect or how it might turn out. On one ocassion, I called a Canadian number to speak to a delivery specialist - who didn’t answer my call. When I swung around the office mere minutes later, she was at her desk, with her earphones in. Not a great look.

I might be full of myself, but I think few people were as active as me regarding this issue.

I’m saying all this because it’s unfair to jump on anyone who’s dissatisfied with Tesla’s communication on this matter. Right now, Tesla is an amazing, innovative company, who makes the best car in the world, and who happens to suck at communicating with prospective customers like us. I suspect I knew more than most about what was going on due to my proactivity, and I still feel that I knew way too little to be comfortable.

Bottom line: I wish Tesla was better at customer relations. If anyone from Tesla is reading this, please make it a priority. We love you, but it feels like you’re just not that into us. I personally know someone who would be great at this job, and I feel you need someone. I’m not alone in feeling this way.

 

[KEvans]

Thanks for the insightful summation.

So Justice Myers quashed the transition plan in line [65] of the ruling. Since he can't change the transition plan, doesn't that imply that we should arrive today as if the plan (i.e. cancellation) was never in force? The government will most likely come out with a new plan but not necessarily retroactive.

Still holding out hope for an AWD rebate.

Yeah, my most optimistic reading of this is that the rebate is in full effect right now. Someone should call the ministry to confirm this information, although I have no doubt that literally nobody knows what’s happening right now.

 

[Abrew2014]

Look, for what it’s worth, I basically spent my summer vacation fighting for this rebate. I actively engaged on social media with the province and PC apologists on a daily basis. I reached out to every ministry I could contact. I collected and sent a considerable amount of information to the Ombudsman.

When I thought the rebate was gone, I began a long process of cataloging my childhood comic and 80’s toys collection, promising my wife that I’d sell them - and my personal collection of RPG books (I am an epic gaming nerd), if necessary, to cover the difference in what we lost on the rebate if I had to. I did all that because I desperately want this car. I believe it’s the best choice for my family long term.

I also called Tesla about a dozen times, and never got a consistent answer. I finally proactively reached out to Tesla administrators and other individuals other than Elon who endeavoured to help me, but never provided me with an answer as to what to expect or how it might turn out. On one ocassion, I called a Canadian number to speak to a delivery specialist - who didn’t answer my call. When I swung around the office mere minutes later, she was at her desk, with her earphones in. Not a great look.

I might be full of myself, but I think few people were as active as me regarding this issue.

I’m saying all this because it’s unfair to jump on anyone who’s dissatisfied with Tesla’s communication on this matter. Right now, Tesla is an amazing, innovative company, who makes the best car in the world, and who happens to suck at communicating with prospective customers like us. I suspect I knew more than most about what was going on due to my proactivity, and I still feel that I knew way too little to be comfortable.

Bottom line: I wish Tesla was better at customer relations. If anyone from Tesla is reading this, please make it a priority. We love you, but it feels like you’re just not that into us. I personally know someone who would be great at this job, and I feel you need someone. I’m not alone in feeling this way.

Exactly this....I really believe in this product and this vision....they just need to be better

I feel the exact same way as this guy (minus the nerd stuff...loser...just kidding) just shows the dedication some of us have gone through to try and make this car work for us, even if it was out of our comfortable range

 

[puzz1ed]

Tesla VP of Communications to Leave Next Month

Perhaps the next VP communications will help whoever that may be.

 

[Harrta]

Look, for what it’s worth, I basically spent my summer vacation fighting for this rebate. I actively engaged on social media with the province and PC apologists on a daily basis. I reached out to every ministry I could contact. I collected and sent a considerable amount of information to the Ombudsman.

When I thought the rebate was gone, I began a long process of cataloging my childhood comic and 80’s toys collection, promising my wife that I’d sell them - and my personal collection of RPG books (I am an epic gaming nerd), if necessary, to cover the difference in what we lost on the rebate if I had to. I did all that because I desperately want this car. I believe it’s the best choice for my family long term.

I also called Tesla about a dozen times, and never got a consistent answer. I finally proactively reached out to Tesla administrators and other individuals other than Elon who endeavoured to help me, but never provided me with an answer as to what to expect or how it might turn out. On one ocassion, I called a Canadian number to speak to a delivery specialist - who didn’t answer my call. When I swung around the office mere minutes later, she was at her desk, with her earphones in. Not a great look.

I might be full of myself, but I think few people were as active as me regarding this issue.

I’m saying all this because it’s unfair to jump on anyone who’s dissatisfied with Tesla’s communication on this matter. Right now, Tesla is an amazing, innovative company, who makes the best car in the world, and who happens to suck at communicating with prospective customers like us. I suspect I knew more than most about what was going on due to my proactivity, and I still feel that I knew way too little to be comfortable.

Bottom line: I wish Tesla was better at customer relations. If anyone from Tesla is reading this, please make it a priority. We love you, but it feels like you’re just not that into us. I personally know someone who would be great at this job, and I feel you need someone. I’m not alone in feeling this way.

I hope you kept your reservation, if you did it is looking very much like you will get the rebate if you can take delivery. Tesla is a rapidly growing company and most of the front line people are working in call centres and have little skin in the game. This is a temporary problem once they get through the backlog most of these positions will be gone. As someone who took first day delivery at the international center I have had bad experiences as well, again for the same reasons, low paid staff with little training and information. But everyone needs to temper their expectations considering the size of the undertaking tesla has embarked on. The rebate was always on the line and anyone who did their homework knew that it was far from certain even when I was taking possession. What is incredibly important to Ontario residents is one of many small concerns for tesla in a very big mission. I'm very happy for everyone who looks like they will get the rebate, for those that cancelled I sympathize, for those that cancelled their non refundable order and are getting a full refund anyway and don't like that it isn't as quick as they would like they can go pound salt.

 

[Abrew2014]

I hope you kept your reservation, if you did it is looking very much like you will get the rebate if you can take delivery. Tesla is a rapidly growing company and most of the front line people are working in call centres and have little skin in the game. This is a temporary problem once they get through the backlog most of these positions will be gone. As someone who took first day delivery at the international center I have had bad experiences as well, again for the same reasons, low paid staff with little training and information. But everyone needs to temper their expectations considering the size of the undertaking tesla has embarked on. The rebate was always on the line and anyone who did their homework knew that it was far from certain even when I was taking possession. What is incredibly important to Ontario residents is one of many small concerns for tesla in a very big mission. I'm very happy for everyone who looks like they will get the rebate, for those that cancelled I sympathize, for those that cancelled their non refundable order and are getting a full refund anyway and don't like that it isn't as quick as they would like they can go pound salt.

Yeh you don’t get it.....no point in trying, you are the polar opposite of adaptabl, I prefer to live with the other 99% in the middle in the normal world.

I’m not giving $65,000 of my hard earned dollars to someone for an “undertaking”, I want a product delivered in a timely fashion at a competitive price. If you can’t do that, then you will struggle to survive (see everything Tesla related the past 6 months)

I’m disappointed I don’t have a Tesla car I think they’re the best, I’m estatic I don’t have to deal with Tesla the company at some point soon they’re the worst

 

[Abrew2014]

Tesla VP of Communications to Leave Next Month

Perhaps the next VP communications will help whoever that may be.

Can’t imagine his turnover has helped like you mention....although outside of the press secretary for Donald Trump I can’t think of a worse communications job then the VP of Communications for Elon Musk lol

My boss just said what on twitter? Oh F$*#

 

[Ludatik]

Yeah, my most optimistic reading of this is that the rebate is in full effect right now. Someone should call the ministry to confirm this information, although I have no doubt that literally nobody knows what’s happening right now.

My interpretation is different. I read it as EHVIP is still over. The new wrinkle is that there is NO phase out period as per the judge’s ruling. In other words, as of July 11, NO CARS are eligible for the rebate whatsoever, until MTO introduces a new phase out policy, if any, that meets the fairness requirement. I could be wrong and the termination of EHVIP is tied to the phase out, but that’s not my understanding right now.

 

[Harrta]

Yeh you don’t get it.....no point in trying, you are the polar opposite of adaptabl, I prefer to live with the other 99% in the middle in the normal world.

I’m not giving $65,000 of my hard earned dollars to someone for an “undertaking”, I want a product delivered in a timely fashion at a competitive price. If you can’t do that, then you will struggle to survive (see everything Tesla related the past 6 months)

I’m disappointed I don’t have a Tesla car I think they’re the best, I’m estatic I don’t have to deal with Tesla the company at some point soon they’re the worst

Take a short position with your refund when you get it if you are so certain they won't survive.

 

[Harrta]

My interpretation is different. I read it as EHVIP is still over. The new wrinkle is that there is NO phase out period as per the judge’s ruling. In other words, as of July 11, NO CARS are eligible for the rebate whatsoever, until MTO introduces a new phase out policy, if any, that meets the fairness requirement. I could be wrong and the termination of EHVIP is tied to the phase out, but that’s not my understanding right now.

They will face court action from every other ev manufacturer whose dealers could be stuck with lost orders if they do away with Sept 11, they could go down that road but I doubt it. I could be wrong .

 

[Ludatik]

They will face court action from every other ev manufacturer whose dealers could be stuck with lost orders if they do away with Sept 11, they could go down that road but I doubt it. I could be wrong .

I’m not speculating on what might happen in the near future, I’m talking about right now at this very moment. Until MTO comes out with a new phase out plan (if any), then there is NO phase out plan.