What if you have of "Most Important Factor in people NOT wanting to buy a Tesla"?
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What if you have of "Most Important Factor in people NOT wanting to buy a Tesla"?
I think the most important detriment to Tesla's are the lack of a pickup and affordable SUV.
It just got worse. Feds putting $400M on hold.Laughable but scary how he says a bunch of stuff but really says nothing, much like someone else we hear from a lot:
“Worst tax ever” - really? I’ve still never heard any detailed analysis or facts, just hyperbole and catchphrases.
“We’re going to make sure you’re heating bill is reduced” - by how much? When? How, specifically?
“reduce gas by 10c” - how about an actual number like $1/litre for regular? Otherwise can’t he just pick any number, including one that’s already achieved?
“money back in your pocket” - how much? When? Through what mechanism?
I can’t believe anyone continues to fall for this stuff. Not only that but what about the buck-a-beer - that was at least one measurable promise, FWIW.
Ottawa reconsidering $420 million in funding for Ontario over its cancellation of cap and trade | The Star
It's free for now, if you register. It's not letting me copy it, here's a different link --
Ontario cancelling cap and trade akin to pulling out of climate framework: feds
I applaud the feds for doing this. Punish the moron.
OTTAWA—The federal government is interpreting Ontario’s cancellation of its cap-and-trade program as equivalent to withdrawing from Ottawa’s national climate change framework — and is reconsidering more than $400 million in funding as a result.
A spokeswoman for Environment Minister Catherine McKenna says the $420 million earmarked for Ontario under the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund is under review, since funding is contingent on agreeing to the framework, which includes imposing a carbon price.
/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/canada/2018/07/04/ottawa-reconsidering-420-million-in-funding-for-ontario-over-its-cancellation-of-cap-and-trade/mckenna.jpg)
Minister of Environment and Climate Change Catherine McKenna speaks at a press conference after a meeting with provincial and territorial environment ministers in Ottawa on Thursday. The federal government sees Ontario's cancellation of its cap and trade program as equivalent to withdrawing from the national climate change framework and is reconsidering more than $400 million in funding as a result. (PATRICK DOYLE / THE CANADIAN PRESS)
Newly elected Ontario Premier Doug Ford has rescinded the previous Liberal government’s regulation that established the cap-and-trade program in 2017, withdrawing from an arrangement with Quebec and California that established a joint carbon market to buy and sell pollution credits.
As a result, Canada has hit the brakes on Ontario’s portion of the $1.4-billion climate change fund.
“By cancelling Ontario’s cap-and-trade plan, the Ontario government is making it clear that it is not taking climate action, and is effectively withdrawing from Canada’s national climate change plan without a plan of their own,” McKenna’s spokeswoman, Caroline Theriault said in a statement.
Read more:
Doug Ford aims to lower gas prices by ending Ontario’s cap-and-trade of carbon dioxide emissions
Doug Ford sworn in as Ontario premier
Some of the key players in Ford’s cabinet
Ottawa had already approved funding for seven Ontario programs under the fund, but and all of that money is now on hold. One particular program cancelled by Ford, the Green Ontario Fund, means the province has, forfeited $100 million in federal money.
Ford called the cap-and-trade program little more than a “government cash grab” when he cancelled it on Tuesday as one of the first actions of his nascent government.
“Every cent spent from the cap-and-trade slush fund is money that has been taken out of the pockets of Ontario families and businesses,” he said in a news release.
“We believe that this money belongs back in the pockets of people. Cancelling the cap-and-trade carbon tax will result in lower prices at the gas pump, on your home heating bills and on virtually every other product that you buy.”
Cap and trade limits on the amount of acceptable emissions; companies that come in under the limit can generate credits which can then be sold to others that exceed the limits. The idea is to create incentives for industry to invest in reducing their carbon footprint.
Those additional costs are passed along in part to consumers in the form of higher prices for gasoline and heating fuels, which in turn is supposed to encourage consumers to reduce their energy use.
The funds Ontario raised through selling credits was to go to programs such as the Green Ontario Fund to help cut emissions.
As it stands, Ontario residents will see only a short period without a carbon price. Under a new federal law passed last month, Ottawa intends to impose a minimum price on pollution through a carbon tax on any province that hasn’t got its own system in place, beginning in January.
A federally imposed carbon price would start at $20 per tonne, increasing $10 a year until it hits $50 a tonne in 2022. The government intends to review the program in 2022 before deciding whether to raise it further.
Saskatchewan, which had been the only province not to endorse the climate change framework, has asked the courts to decide if Ottawa has the authority to impose a carbon price on provinces — a challenge for which Ford has expressed support in the past.
Many legal experts have suggested Ottawa has the necessary authority — including one from a legal review by the Manitoba government as it decided how to proceed.
A spokeswoman for Environment Minister Catherine McKenna says the $420 million earmarked for Ontario under the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund is under review, since funding is contingent on agreeing to the framework, which includes imposing a carbon price.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change Catherine McKenna speaks at a press conference after a meeting with provincial and territorial environment ministers in Ottawa on Thursday. The federal government sees Ontario's cancellation of its cap and trade program as equivalent to withdrawing from the national climate change framework and is reconsidering more than $400 million in funding as a result. (PATRICK DOYLE / THE CANADIAN PRESS)
Newly elected Ontario Premier Doug Ford has rescinded the previous Liberal government’s regulation that established the cap-and-trade program in 2017, withdrawing from an arrangement with Quebec and California that established a joint carbon market to buy and sell pollution credits.
As a result, Canada has hit the brakes on Ontario’s portion of the $1.4-billion climate change fund.
“By cancelling Ontario’s cap-and-trade plan, the Ontario government is making it clear that it is not taking climate action, and is effectively withdrawing from Canada’s national climate change plan without a plan of their own,” McKenna’s spokeswoman, Caroline Theriault said in a statement.
Read more:
Doug Ford aims to lower gas prices by ending Ontario’s cap-and-trade of carbon dioxide emissions
Doug Ford sworn in as Ontario premier
Some of the key players in Ford’s cabinet
Ottawa had already approved funding for seven Ontario programs under the fund, but and all of that money is now on hold. One particular program cancelled by Ford, the Green Ontario Fund, means the province has, forfeited $100 million in federal money.
Ford called the cap-and-trade program little more than a “government cash grab” when he cancelled it on Tuesday as one of the first actions of his nascent government.
“Every cent spent from the cap-and-trade slush fund is money that has been taken out of the pockets of Ontario families and businesses,” he said in a news release.
“We believe that this money belongs back in the pockets of people. Cancelling the cap-and-trade carbon tax will result in lower prices at the gas pump, on your home heating bills and on virtually every other product that you buy.”
Cap and trade limits on the amount of acceptable emissions; companies that come in under the limit can generate credits which can then be sold to others that exceed the limits. The idea is to create incentives for industry to invest in reducing their carbon footprint.
Those additional costs are passed along in part to consumers in the form of higher prices for gasoline and heating fuels, which in turn is supposed to encourage consumers to reduce their energy use.
The funds Ontario raised through selling credits was to go to programs such as the Green Ontario Fund to help cut emissions.
As it stands, Ontario residents will see only a short period without a carbon price. Under a new federal law passed last month, Ottawa intends to impose a minimum price on pollution through a carbon tax on any province that hasn’t got its own system in place, beginning in January.
A federally imposed carbon price would start at $20 per tonne, increasing $10 a year until it hits $50 a tonne in 2022. The government intends to review the program in 2022 before deciding whether to raise it further.
Saskatchewan, which had been the only province not to endorse the climate change framework, has asked the courts to decide if Ottawa has the authority to impose a carbon price on provinces — a challenge for which Ford has expressed support in the past.
Many legal experts have suggested Ottawa has the necessary authority — including one from a legal review by the Manitoba government as it decided how to proceed.
If you're not interested, but want to take a chance it's $4200. If you can't afford it without the rebate be careful.
Not that it would be cheaper but you could probably buy a used S or X and have them use the $4200 towards that. I might consider that if it could be determined definitively that the rebates were cancelled and it was allowed. When I spoke to someone on the phone last week about options, that came up as a "probably".
Trudeau and Ford are meeting at 2p so perhaps some clarifications on EHVIP will come from that.
Trudeau and Ford are meeting at 2p so perhaps some clarifications on EHVIP will come from that.
I'd think making EVs HST-exempt would be an easy way to have the provincial and federal governments support GHG initiatives and not require direct taxpayer funding.
Yeah I will remain cautiously optimistic since it does meet the guidelines but unfortunately the timing is the worst and there is no real "incentive" for the PC party to force through an updated list of EVIP vehicles. I may send an email to the new Minister of Finance seeking clarification and I will post if there is any reply.
You have to consider that your polled audience may not be representative of the public at large.
In Norway, incentives brings the cost of an EV in line with an ICE vehicle. The target of 50,000 electric cars on Norwegian roads was reached on 20 April 2015, more than two years earlier than expected.
Christina Bu is head of the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association, which advocates for both consumers and manufacturers. “People aren’t so green that they want to pay a lot extra to buy an electric,” she said. The Norwegian system works, Ms. Bu said, because “it’s constructed to make the least-polluting cars the most attractive.”
Other analyses have shown that the TCO of a Model S is lower than any other car. I think a Nissan came close. I'm not sure the average car buyer has an appreciation of that. I expect the Model 3 will beat it.
USA EV sales data for first half of 2018 shows the Model 3 ahead of the Prius Prime and also more than the Volt and Bolt combined.
I think if you polled the middle class you'd find a higher % are price sensitive and are often not looking at TCO but initial purchase/loan costs and then narrowing down from there based on features and fuel efficiency. With a higher base cost (without incentive) an EV probably isn't even on the radar for many. Also, a larger number of middle class buyers will be single vehicle families that may not want an EV as their sole vehicle. Also, in Norway it was found that some 2nd vehicle EV buyers had shifted their travel mode to EV from buses and trains. (a negative impact of too great an incentive)
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This is going to sound like heresy, but considering the current situation...
1. I've been waiting patiently for my Model 3, in my preferred configuration, since the first possible minute of placing an order.
2. Since then, I've been driving my very first car, a 2006 Chevy Cobalt, which I bought from an 89 year old in 2012. I was hoping to continue to put up with it, stringing me along until my Model 3 is ready. It is currently in such disrepair my mechanic refused to repair it, the rear axle requires a full replacement.
3. Now that I've waited so long, I'm completely out of the running for the EHVIP on ANY car I would buy.
4. I hate buying gas. Hate. Every time.
5. I feel I'm forced into a corner, and after weighing all the options, I'm looking at a used 2017 Premier Volt, at $28k. This will allow me to commute each day without buying gas. Hopefully the heavy depreciation is already passed on a 2017 model year, and it isn't too hard on me in 1 to 3 years' time (unknown how long I'll decide to keep it, perhaps even deferring a Tesla order for a few years)
Question: What does the ending of EHVIP mean for used vehicle markets in Ontario? How will the landscape change in the short term?
Cost is an issue for me. I can't possibly justify a $70k vehicle where I was looking for something at $50k. The rebate was a nice touch, but not a be-all end-all situation. I still need Tesla to come through with their promised configuration and pricing, and will buy with or without an incentive.
1. I've been waiting patiently for my Model 3, in my preferred configuration, since the first possible minute of placing an order.
2. Since then, I've been driving my very first car, a 2006 Chevy Cobalt, which I bought from an 89 year old in 2012. I was hoping to continue to put up with it, stringing me along until my Model 3 is ready. It is currently in such disrepair my mechanic refused to repair it, the rear axle requires a full replacement.
3. Now that I've waited so long, I'm completely out of the running for the EHVIP on ANY car I would buy.
4. I hate buying gas. Hate. Every time.
5. I feel I'm forced into a corner, and after weighing all the options, I'm looking at a used 2017 Premier Volt, at $28k. This will allow me to commute each day without buying gas. Hopefully the heavy depreciation is already passed on a 2017 model year, and it isn't too hard on me in 1 to 3 years' time (unknown how long I'll decide to keep it, perhaps even deferring a Tesla order for a few years)
Question: What does the ending of EHVIP mean for used vehicle markets in Ontario? How will the landscape change in the short term?
Cost is an issue for me. I can't possibly justify a $70k vehicle where I was looking for something at $50k. The rebate was a nice touch, but not a be-all end-all situation. I still need Tesla to come through with their promised configuration and pricing, and will buy with or without an incentive.
Blu-Ion
Member
No Tesla's problem is that they can't produce cars fast enough, if you could walk in to a Tesla dealership and drive out with a Model 3, they would sell 2 Million units. Ive taken numerous people out on test drives with my 3, they are all convinced after a single test drive.
Having an SUV and pickup would drive them to number 1 automaker in the World... assuming again they could produce
For a recent reference point, take a look at prices for used 2016/17 Model S/X as those qualified for $14k incentive. EHVIP changed in March 2018 to exclude S/X.
mknox
Well-Known Member
If I had to guess, I'd say it would push used car prices up a bit. If new ones are more expensive, it would be logical to assume that this would drag used car prices up. Doubt it would drag them up $14k, but probably some amount.
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