Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[felixculpas]

The nuclear option as I recall was to invoke legislation.

 

[ben1628]

So how many Ontarian are waiting for this rebate, any guess?

I would imagine whoever are expecting a rebate will google and find this forum, and who have said something or venting. Based on what we have over the last few days, I would guess we would have less than a 1000 people, possibly in low 500.

I also find it strange that nobody else get any call/email regarding the rebate cancellations. I would assume if it is no longer available, Tesla will make the call by now. I guess nobody know, and would just wait until early next week.

 

[sitter_k]

Don't disagree at all however the optics matters to me and why Ford played this as he did is beyond me. He gave the illusion that he'd pulled a miracle and avoided a $10.7M expense for taxpayers. A little more transparency would be appreciated, Mr. Ford.

Unless I'm reading this wrong the ceo already had 9 million in stock option and 400k in retirement pay.
If he was terminated he would have got the $10 million poison pill pay they voted for themselves, plus the $9 million in stock options.

So rather than risk losing the stock he retired and gave up termination pay as legislation was coming.

Optically I think it was better to fire the CEO to send a signal that this type of funneling of government funds into their own pocket is no longer the practice of the province, even if it was $10 million, which it doesn't appear to be.

 

[Amendale]

So how many Ontarian are waiting for this rebate, any guess?

I would imagine whoever are expecting a rebate will google and find this forum, and who have said something or venting. Based on what we have over the last few days, I would guess we would have less than a 1000 people, possibly in low 500.

I also find it strange that nobody else get any call/email regarding the rebate cancellations. I would assume if it is no longer available, Tesla will make the call by now. I guess nobody know, and would just wait until early next week.

I called two Tesla reps in Ontario this morning. Both confirmed that they received announcement that rebate will not apply to deliveries after July 11.

I also called MOF this morning. Unlike yesterday they said that they do not have clear answer about existing Tesla orders, took down my info, and said I will be contacted in the future with clarification.

It seems as it stands right now Tesla orders are excluded from the EHVIP, unless a push is made to change this. However I think the PCs are unlikely to budge on this given their history.

 

[RossK]

When was your Config Date ? I configered on May 24th and I believe will get the VIN very soon. I also ordered the Charger online couple days ago ! We will be on the same boat !!

Hi- what a crappy boat to be in! I configured May 5. I am hoping the MPP will help. I called MTO but got a message saying voicemail full. The Tesla guy was not at all optimistic.

 

[Birdman325]

Deliveries after July 11, regardless of when the "order" was placed, correct?

 

[Amendale]

Deliveries after July 11, regardless of when the "order" was placed, correct?

Yeah. It seems the wording of “dealer” vs “manufacturer” and “consumer” was very intentional and made to exclude Tesla.

 

[Techniques]

I emailed Mckenna and I urged her to create a nation wide EV incentive program. With that said, I've been asking her for almost 3 years now because Canadians from provinces like Alberta, Sask, and Manitoba have always had to pay full price for EVs.

The reason we never got a nationwide program though is because Ontario had their incentive program and Ontarioans didn't give a crap about pushing our federal govt toward an nation wide EV program. I am wrong? Can you point to a post from you or anyone else from Ontario that made such a request over the last 3 years prior to you losing your incentive?

I think its rather shameful that Canadians in Ontario only care now about a nation wide EV program after their provincial govt killed their program.

Oh well, if this leads to a nation wide program then great

I think it’s “shameful” that you want to peg all Ontarians into the same boat of not caring.

For starters I have an ICE car and it has served me well. Rebate or not, investing in an EV would benefit my family as I commute over 100kms a day for work. The rebate to me served as an incentive to get into an EV but also do away with the rising cost of filling up. Should there be a country wide rebate? Of course, should more people be driving EVs? Absolutely.

Now my original post was calling on everyone to urge for a federal rebate that would benifit all Canadians, not just Ontarians. If I was being self centered I would have urged everyone to push for a reinstatement of an Ontario rebate again.

Why didn’t I urge for this is the past? Honestly it didn’t affect me, as I was not in the market for an EV until recently. I would think those who have been in the market have tried like yourself.

So again, my plea is for the greater good for the nation to get this started, not just Ontario.

Not all of us Ontarians are a-holes...just saying.

 

[Ludatik]

I called two Tesla reps in Ontario this morning. Both confirmed that they received announcement that rebate will not apply to deliveries after July 11.

Thanks for the confirmation. This issue is out of Tesla's hands. There isn't much they can do to sway the policy. I think the only course of action at this point is for affected consumers like you and I to lobby our local MPPs and Doug Ford to at least make the terms of the cancellation policy fair (i.e., treat vehicle orders to manufacturers from BOTH independent dealerships and individuals equally with the same grace period).

 

[felixculpas]

Thanks for the confirmation. This issue is out of Tesla's hands. There isn't much they can do to sway the policy. I think the only course of action at this point is for affected consumers like you and I to lobby our local MPPs and Doug Ford to at least make the terms of the cancellation policy fair (i.e., treat vehicle orders to manufacturers from BOTH independent dealerships and individuals equally with the same grace period).

I, for one, have done that.

 

[Tertulian]

OK, I’ve been thinking about this a bit. Tesla won’t have any success negotiating with Ford. Why? Because Ford hates them and Tesla drivers. If your local MPP is NDP or Liberal then they will likely also have no success changing Ford’s mind. Why? He hates them too. Our only hope is to petition PC MPPs and try to impress upon them just how unfair the MANNER of the wind down is to their constituents. With that in mind, I’ve crafted this email and I would recommend we all send it out to all the PC MPPs out there. If we can have Ford’s MPPs pushing him to loosen up a bit then we might have a chance…

Dear Mr./Ms. MPP,

Recently Premier Ford announced the cancellation of cap-and-trade, along with the green initiatives tied to it. Although I believe in climate change I understand that there are many ways to tackle this problem and Ontario’s Cap and Trade solution may not be the best of them. As such, my email today is not in protest to the cancellation of Cap and Trade and its associated green initiatives. Rather, it is in protest to the MANNER in which it is being cancelled, specifically in regards to the EVHIP program.

On July 11th, Premier Ford’s team announced the immediate cancellation of the program. The only way to still qualify for the rebate would be if one satisfied one of the following two conditions:

• Eligible vehicles that have been delivered to consumers, registered, and plated on or before July 11 will receive the incentive.
  
• Inventory that dealers have on lots or orders made by dealerships with manufacturers on or before July 11, will also be honoured for the incentive provided that the vehicle is delivered to consumers, registered, and plated by September 10.

Although this gives dealers a ‘wind-down’ period, it offers no such consideration to consumers. I believe this was done specifically to target Tesla buyers as they buy directly from the manufacturer, especially as Premier Ford has referred to Tesla owners as ‘downtown liberals’ and ‘millionaires’. This is simply not true. The only Tesla that is currently on the list of approved vehicles (i.e. the Model 3) is aimed at middle class Ontarians. After the rebate, gas savings, and savings on maintenance, the pricing of the Model 3 is in-line with non-luxury brands, such as Honda, Toyota, and GM. For most of us, the rebate is the difference between affordability and non-affordability. Many of us have ordered this car in good faith, placing a $4,200 non-refundable deposit. We now face a no-win scenario; either cancel our orders and lose $4,200, or commit to buying a car that we can no longer afford.

All I am asking is that Premier Ford extend to us, his constituents, the same consideration he is offering to businesses (i.e. the dealers); honour those orders that were placed prior to July 11th providing the vehicle is delivered, registered, and plated by September 10th. As it stands, it seems as though Premier Ford is intentionally targeting Tesla, but is really only hurting his people. We voted-in Premier Ford in good faith, so please don’t break faith with us now – wind down this program in an equitable manner.

Sincerely,

NAME

Take this, change it, make it your own, and then send it to ALL the PC MPPs. A complete listing of their emails can be found here: Current MPPs | Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It's time we stopped whining about how unfair this is and do what we can to fight it.

 

[Amendale]

Thanks for the confirmation. This issue is out of Tesla's hands. There isn't much they can do to sway the policy. I think the only course of action at this point is for affected consumers like you and I to lobby our local MPPs and Doug Ford to at least make the terms of the cancellation policy fair (i.e., treat vehicle orders to manufacturers from BOTH independent dealerships and individuals equally with the same grace period).

Right, I guess the risk now is if you cannot afford the purchase without the rebate, proceeding without a cancellation will put you at risk of having a VIN assigned and order deposit made non-refundable.

 

[Tertulian]

RE: Lawsuit

I spoke to my cousin (he's one of those hot-shot lawyers) and he told me flat-out that a lawsuit has a 0% chance of winning. Governments can do what they will through legislation (assuming they're not contravening a law or the Canadian Charter). Too bad, so sad for people who suffer losses as a result.

 

[Ludatik]

OK, I’ve been thinking about this a bit. Tesla won’t have any success negotiating with Ford. Why? Because Ford hates them and Tesla drivers. If your local MPP is NDP or Liberal then they will likely also have no success changing Ford’s mind. Why? He hates them too. Our only hope is to petition PC MPPs and try to impress upon them just how unfair the MANNER of the wind down is to their constituents. With that in mind, I’ve crafted this email and I would recommend we all send it out to all the PC MPPs out there. If we can have Ford’s MPPs pushing him to loosen up a bit then we might have a chance…

Dear Mr./Ms. MPP,

Recently Premier Ford announced the cancellation of cap-and-trade, along with the green initiatives tied to it. Although I believe in climate change I understand that there are many ways to tackle this problem and Ontario’s Cap and Trade solution may not be the best of them. As such, my email today is not in protest to the cancellation of Cap and Trade and its associated green initiatives. Rather, it is in protest to the MANNER in which it is being cancelled, specifically in regards to the EVHIP program.

On July 11th, Premier Ford’s team announced the immediate cancellation of the program. The only way to still qualify for the rebate would be if one satisfied one of the following two conditions:

• Eligible vehicles that have been delivered to consumers, registered, and plated on or before July 11 will receive the incentive.
  
• Inventory that dealers have on lots or orders made by dealerships with manufacturers on or before July 11, will also be honoured for the incentive provided that the vehicle is delivered to consumers, registered, and plated by September 10.

Although this gives dealers a ‘wind-down’ period, it offers no such consideration to consumers. I believe this was done specifically to target Tesla buyers as they buy directly from the manufacturer, especially as Premier Ford has referred to Tesla owners as ‘downtown liberals’ and ‘millionaires’. This is simply not true. The only Tesla that is currently on the list of approved vehicles (i.e. the Model 3) is aimed at middle class Ontarians. After the rebate, gas savings, and savings on maintenance, the pricing of the Model 3 is in-line with non-luxury brands, such as Honda, Toyota, and GM. For most of us, the rebate is the difference between affordability and non-affordability. Many of us have ordered this car in good faith, placing a $4,200 non-refundable deposit. We now face a no-win scenario; either cancel our orders and lose $4,200, or commit to buying a car that we can no longer afford.

All I am asking is that Premier Ford extend to us, his constituents, the same consideration he is offering to businesses (i.e. the dealers); honour those orders that were placed prior to July 11th providing the vehicle is delivered, registered, and plated by September 10th. As it stands, it seems as though Premier Ford is intentionally targeting Tesla, but is really only hurting his people. We voted-in Premier Ford in good faith, so please don’t break faith with us now – wind down this program in an equitable manner.

Sincerely,

NAME

Take this, change it, make it your own, and then send it to ALL the PC MPPs. A complete listing of their emails can be found here: Current MPPs | Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It's time we stopped whining about how unfair this is and do what we can to fight it.

Thanks, was going to post my letter too making the exact same plea for equal treatment. Spell check - it's "EHVIP" not "EVHIP". Also, I'd recommend rhyming off the other car manufacturers so that the MPPs understand just how lopsided this policy is. For reference, that list is: Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Smart, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

 

[felixculpas]

I know it's not possible to do anything for such a relatively small group/issue but it would be interesting how many kept their orders if Tesla extended an olive branch and gave us free EAP if we bought FSD. Kind of a win-win.

It's a little out there, I realize but just a thought given there's little other recourse in sight. Agree that it's (cancellation) not a legal matter and while we might raise the eyebrows of conservative MP's, I doubt they are going to risk disfavor over this issue.

 

[Tertulian]

Thanks, was going to post my letter too making the exact same plea for equal treatment. Spell check - it's "EHVIP" not "EVHIP". Also, I'd recommend rhyming off the other car manufacturers so that the MPPs understand just how lopsided this policy is. For reference, that list is: Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Smart, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

Thanks for the spellcheck! Always good to have an extra set of eyes. As for rhyming off the other car manufacturers, I think that's a good idea, but I would leave out the luxury brands; we're trying to impress upon the MPPs that this is hurting middle class people, not those shopping in the luxury market.

Beyond that, make it your own; 500-1000 emails that are all the same doesn't carry quite the same impact as 500-1000 that are all slightly different, but with the same message.

best of luck to all of us!

 

[jkirkwood001]

I have been waiting and dreaming about the Model3 since I placed my reservation 2 years ago. Although no one could predict if and when the rebate ended, I feel Tesla’s production delays and also their roll-out strategy of LR model first made me put off ordering. I have always been looking for the SR model - as we don’t need the extra range. So after waiting, and with the rebate now gone, the price of the model3 is now hard to justify for our family. I am not saying it’s Tesla’s fault entirely...however, I do think that if they delivered on time and offered the SR battery on day 1, then I would currently be proudly driving a Model3 (instead of the crappy EV I had to settle for at the last minute).

My dreams of driving a Tesla one day are not over...but they have been seriously delayed.

You make it sound like they were out to get you. We all wish we had the car sooner, including rebate. I think it's pretty obvious Tesla and Elon would have loved to fulfill 450,000 orders within weeks of July 2017, but it's famously been "production hell". They've tried their best. And I don't feel they've deceived. At worst, you can accuse them of being incompetent by stating targets that were unachievable. But not malicious.

 

[jkirkwood001]

I know it's not possible to do anything for such a relatively small group/issue but it would be interesting how many kept their orders if Tesla extended an olive branch and gave us free EAP if we bought FSD. Kind of a win-win.

It's a little out there, I realize but just a thought given there's little other recourse in sight. Agree that it's (cancellation) not a legal matter and while we might raise the eyebrows of conservative MP's, I doubt they are going to risk disfavor over this issue.

I like that idea, @felixculpas, except then anyone who paid for FSD would rightly say "Hey! No fair!!". And If Tesla rebated those drivers for FSD, then US drivers would say "Hey! No fair!!" etc. (I think you switched EAP and FSD in your OP, no?)

 

[Tertulian]

I know it's not possible to do anything for such a relatively small group/issue but it would be interesting how many kept their orders if Tesla extended an olive branch and gave us free EAP if we bought FSD. Kind of a win-win.

It's a little out there, I realize but just a thought given there's little other recourse in sight. Agree that it's (cancellation) not a legal matter and while we might raise the eyebrows of conservative MP's, I doubt they are going to risk disfavor over this issue.

Very possibly. But look at it like this; you have nothing to lose but a bit of time by sending out these emails. Probably it won't change the policy, but it might. We have nothing to lose by trying and everything to gain. After all, our ask is not a big one.

 

[dani190]

Yeah. It seems the wording of “dealer” vs “manufacturer” and “consumer” was very intentional and made to exclude Tesla.

Except that Tesla is a registered dealer in Ontario... I am calling BS that they can omit them.
https://www.omvic.on.ca/RegistrantS...Name=tesla&City=null&PostalCode=null&URL=null