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Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

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I'm confused why I've had no communication from Tesla. I ordered an AWD on June 28th, so why like many on this forum didn't I get an email about the option to get a refund? I wonder if there's a pattern: for example, my order says I will pay cash - is Tesla only promoting the refund offer to those who were leveraging Tesla's financing? Or is it because I ordered AWD? Or because I don't have a VIN yet? I suppose I could phone them, stay on hold for a while, and ask.

I'm curious. To all: did you get an email, and what's the state of your order?

Not sure why you are expecting a refund from Tesla? AWD has never been on the incentive list and no one should expect $14,000 rebate for AWD. The cancellation of Ontario rebate only affects RWD order. I think Tesla will only offer for those who ordered RWD.
 
My biggest fear in continuing with current order is nothing happens from province/Tesla, I purchase for full price on Sep 1. As of Jan 1, 2019 federal govt introduces $8000 incentive for new purchases, now I miss out on both and have a large asset that is underwater in value almost immediately due to missed rebates.

This is where lack of communication from Tesla is frustrating as this is a major financial decision.

I'm too much of a tight ass to ignore this possibility which is why I'm waiting and hoping some federal direction will at least be provided so people can make good decisions. You shouldn't have to be taking a gamble...just lay out the rules and apply them fairly and people will adjust and react accordingly. Look at all the time and energy people have wasted over the EHVIP bungling. Ridiculous.
 
Urghhh, just came back from a trip and see my rebate is gone. The more frustrating thing is that I ORDERED in May in anticipation of this and I still got screwed over. I'm seeing all over the forum of people ordering in June or July and have gotten a delivery or VIN within weeks yet I'm still here without a VIN 2 months later.

Screw this, since I'm not getting a rebate, I'm gonna get a base Model 3 Performance instead.

Yeah I'm hoping we'll still get a chance to get it. Fingers crossed!



I got the LR PUP in Red Multicoat.

Same here ! Ordered on May 24th NO communication at all ! By far the worst car buying experience, I wish they have a dealership so that we have someone to follow up with !
 
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Not sure why you are expecting a refund from Tesla? AWD has never been on the incentive list and no one should expect $14,000 rebate for AWD. The cancellation of Ontario rebate only affects RWD order. I think Tesla will only offer for those who ordered RWD.

False,
Tesla is offering refunds to ALL Ontario buyers who have paid the $4200. Even if you already have a VIN assigned. (Called last Friday and confirmed after being on hold for 2 hours) This is out of good will. They by no means have to do this, but they’re an exceptional company with a heart.
 
I'm too much of a tight ass to ignore this possibility which is why I'm waiting and hoping some federal direction will at least be provided so people can make good decisions. You shouldn't have to be taking a gamble...just lay out the rules and apply them fairly and people will adjust and react accordingly. Look at all the time and energy people have wasted over the EHVIP bungling. Ridiculous.
All you folks are aware that most provinces have zero incentives right?
If the great shirtless wonder had any interest in supporting EV's they could have simply removed the Federal 5% HST on them a very long time ago (matching many other countries), which would have supported the whole country, not just Upper Canada. He is as green as he is committed to election reform... if it doesn't ensure the extension of his dynasty, not interested.
The feds had a "green car initiative" years ago, with a mirrored program to extra tax guzzlers, they scratched the rebate and kept the extra taxes on the guzzlers, they could have put that full program back.
They used to have a program for upgrading houses to improve energy efficiency, that could have been re-instated.
The only way there's going to be a Fed rebate will be as a flat out election seat buying initiative, in which case it will be a promise to be fulfilled after the 2019 election.
Tesla giving a bonus to you because you elected an idiot?
The rest of the country has suffered with idiots for years yet nobody out here is saying we should be treated specially.
Tesla has to make money, they need all the cash they can get from each of you. When you got the rebate, they still got the cash.
There is actual cost associated with EAP and FSD, giving that up for free will cost them in the end. As soon as the first one of you go crying to the Service Center about one of those things having an issue and they need to put a tech in your car for a couple of hours to diagnose whether it's the cameras or the MCU or software. As soon as someone plows off a road using one of those features and their phone rings with the Lawyers of the family of the deceased. You think their liability insurance rates aren't calculated based on the number of FSD and EAP cars they have on the road? When you buy a new personal plane the manufacturer pays an enormous amount of the purchase price to an insurance company to cover them against you being an idiot and flying into the ground, you think Tesla isn't doing the same with each EAP and FSD payment? Stop asking for "no cost" freebies, they aren't "no cost".
Tesla isn't responsible, the voters of Ontario are directly responsible for electing a politician who is doing exactly what he said he'd do.
Orderly wind down, as I said in a previous post, you can throw people off a cliff in an orderly manner. It's all in the interpretation. Is it unfair, probably, but the government has complete right to do things that are unfair whenever they want to, they just pass legislation. They do it all the time.

While I'm very sad to see the major economy of the country headed for a death spiral with an open for pollution sign hanging on the door and sad to see that the lovely yellow haze I used to look at every summer day hanging over the Gardiner won't be going away any time soon... It's what you asked for when you and or your fellow citizens voted. The Feds and their spineless leader will not be riding in on their great white stallions to save you from yourselves. When the Carbon Tax is imposed, then challenged in court, then collected, the Feds aren't about to cherry pick what to do with it, they will send a cheque to Douggie and he'll get to spend it how he wants, or they'd face yet another fight, one they'd lose.
 
I'm too much of a tight ass to ignore this possibility which is why I'm waiting and hoping some federal direction will at least be provided so people can make good decisions. You shouldn't have to be taking a gamble...just lay out the rules and apply them fairly and people will adjust and react accordingly. Look at all the time and energy people have wasted over the EHVIP bungling. Ridiculous.

Same position.
Ordered AWD on the 27th of June. Thankfully I have a 3-5 month delivery window ahead of me. I’ve never in the last 2 years hoped that Tesla would hit a bottleneck as much as I do now. I don’t want to fall into “the gap” as many ppl have mentioned and lose out on any non-retroactive Federal incentive or rebate that may be heading down the pipeline.

Hopefully the Feds step in and at least acknowledge that they have something in the works. Even if it’s 6 + months away!
 
In reference to the electric rebate please check out the site below. It allows you to send a video or email message directly to the Minister of Transportation. There are a lot of details and references here. We put a lot of work into this. I think reservation holders and people who already received the rebate should stress the importance of the rebate to their budgets etc.
Don’t dwell on the rebate going away, please focus on the unfairness to people who are waiting for their Model 3 vehicles. Please be respectful, on message and keep the videos to 30-45 seconds.
Electric Cars Ontario
John Dixon
President
Tesla Owners Ontario club
Ontario.teslaownersclub.
Done.
 
After A LOT of debate, we ended up deciding to go ahead and keep our order. If we decided to wait for the standard battery we would’ve lost our place in line and had to wait till it was even available to configure since they had to refund your entire $4200 deposit and the SB isn’t on the website to order now as an option. Not sure our car would make it. Model 3 should be here next week or the week after. I’m still nervous about the cost, but I’m assuming the car will be totally worth it. Will still get rebate for the charger now at least, small concilation I guess. We are still gonna submit all rebate forms (whenever they get posted, there are new ones coming they keep saying, feels like they’re trying to wait to post them till August so people will have less time to send them in) and see what happens anyway. Why not? Question: anyone who owns one, how much did your hydro bill go up if you plugged in every night and about 120km of driving in a day?

Hey,

I have put about 3600 KM's on my model 3 and I drive anywhere between 100 to 150 per day. So far I only have about 1 bill to compare as I got the care May 31st. It is a blast to drive and you will not be disappointed. I'm paying about $40-50 more this month than last. I would have spent probably around $300 in gas for the same mileage.

Hope this helps. I can update you later again when I have a 2nd bill to help give a more accurate average.

Cheers,

Ryan
 
Appreciate the effort but not likely changing anything, this is from 2 days ago in Toronto Star from that MPP


Meanwhile, Transportation Minister John Yakabuski said the government is sticking to its plan to end taxpayer subsidies for electric and hybrid cars despite complaints from motorists who have paid deposits on Tesla models that won’t be delivered until after the deadline.

The incentives of up to $14,000 will still be paid on eligible vehicles that have been delivered to buyers, registered and plated by July 11.

For motorists who agreed to buy vehicles on dealer lots or ordered vehicles before July 11, the subsidies will be paid only if the cars are delivered, registered and plated by Sept. 10.

“We extended it to Sept. 10 so that people would have an ample amount of time,” Yakabuski told the Star.

“Tesla does not have a dealer network. They deal directly with the consumer and our intention in extending it for the other models was to protect the dealer networks that provide jobs and work for people here in Ontario.”
Only thing different in a "dealer network" is there is another middle man that owns that franchise. Still have mechanics, still have sales people, still have receptionist, still have service advisors, so what you're essentially saying is since there's no middle man franchisee to take a cut all these other people will lose and aren't "protected", But you'll totally protect the middle man.
 
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Only thing different in a "dealer network" is there is another middle man that owns that franchise. Still have mechanics, still have sales people, still have receptionist, still have service advisors, so what you're essentially saying is since there's no middle man franchisee to take a cut all these other people will lose and aren't "protected", But you'll totally protect the middle man.

It's not like the taxes on those salaries are paid to the USA.
 
Hey,

I have put about 3600 KM's on my model 3 and I drive anywhere between 100 to 150 per day. So far I only have about 1 bill to compare as I got the care May 31st. It is a blast to drive and you will not be disappointed. I'm paying about $40-50 more this month than last. I would have spent probably around $300 in gas for the same mileage.

Hope this helps. I can update you later again when I have a 2nd bill to help give a more accurate average.

Cheers,

Ryan
You can't compare year over year $$ in your hydro bill since effective July 2017 Ontario greatly reduced hydro costs (well... They just added more long term debt to pay for this) so my actual hydro cost y/y is actually lower from my June bill... Instead look at kWh usage. I was up 16% in usage. Hard to tell how much M3 actually consumed since usage may vary, but assuming 16% is accurate, that's around $30 for a month, and 1700km
If you charge at night, I would estimate cost per kWh net of all deliveries to be around 10.5-11 cents kwh

This also depends on where you live since delivery costs vary depending on where you live and your local utility I'm on hydro one in medium density (rural estate) delivery rates are cheaper in urban zones
 
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Same here ! Ordered on May 24th NO communication at all ! By far the worst car buying experience, I wish they have a dealership so that we have someone to follow up with !
Reading these forums their lack of communication is a big problem I wish they could resolve. I ordered in April and had no communication still to this date. Pretty sure I was lost in the system but they won't admit it. However, I'm going to go with my original plan and wait for the SR when it gets released. I'm in no rush :)
 
All you folks are aware that most provinces have zero incentives right?
If the great shirtless wonder had any interest in supporting EV's they could have simply removed the Federal 5% HST on them a very long time ago (matching many other countries), which would have supported the whole country, not just Upper Canada. He is as green as he is committed to election reform... if it doesn't ensure the extension of his dynasty, not interested.
The feds had a "green car initiative" years ago, with a mirrored program to extra tax guzzlers, they scratched the rebate and kept the extra taxes on the guzzlers, they could have put that full program back.
They used to have a program for upgrading houses to improve energy efficiency, that could have been re-instated.
The only way there's going to be a Fed rebate will be as a flat out election seat buying initiative, in which case it will be a promise to be fulfilled after the 2019 election.
Tesla giving a bonus to you because you elected an idiot?
The rest of the country has suffered with idiots for years yet nobody out here is saying we should be treated specially.
Tesla has to make money, they need all the cash they can get from each of you. When you got the rebate, they still got the cash.
There is actual cost associated with EAP and FSD, giving that up for free will cost them in the end. As soon as the first one of you go crying to the Service Center about one of those things having an issue and they need to put a tech in your car for a couple of hours to diagnose whether it's the cameras or the MCU or software. As soon as someone plows off a road using one of those features and their phone rings with the Lawyers of the family of the deceased. You think their liability insurance rates aren't calculated based on the number of FSD and EAP cars they have on the road? When you buy a new personal plane the manufacturer pays an enormous amount of the purchase price to an insurance company to cover them against you being an idiot and flying into the ground, you think Tesla isn't doing the same with each EAP and FSD payment? Stop asking for "no cost" freebies, they aren't "no cost".
Tesla isn't responsible, the voters of Ontario are directly responsible for electing a politician who is doing exactly what he said he'd do.
Orderly wind down, as I said in a previous post, you can throw people off a cliff in an orderly manner. It's all in the interpretation. Is it unfair, probably, but the government has complete right to do things that are unfair whenever they want to, they just pass legislation. They do it all the time.

While I'm very sad to see the major economy of the country headed for a death spiral with an open for pollution sign hanging on the door and sad to see that the lovely yellow haze I used to look at every summer day hanging over the Gardiner won't be going away any time soon... It's what you asked for when you and or your fellow citizens voted. The Feds and their spineless leader will not be riding in on their great white stallions to save you from yourselves. When the Carbon Tax is imposed, then challenged in court, then collected, the Feds aren't about to cherry pick what to do with it, they will send a cheque to Douggie and he'll get to spend it how he wants, or they'd face yet another fight, one they'd lose.

While this thread is about an Ontario provincial rebate and its cancellation, that's a mere subset of the spirit in which green initiatives and cap & trade were developed. Lets not lose sight of something...the people here are the good guys. For the most part, we are going above and beyond to do what's right for the environment. We are not outliers. We ARE the "people" and our numbers increase daily.

Some 25 countries have an incentive and seem to be more interested in reducing GHG's than we are in Canada. Meanwhile, temperatures soared into the nineties Fahrenheit north of the Arctic Circle on Tuesday and Wednesday, as 2018’s parade of exceptional heat continued marching across the Northern Hemisphere. Northern European countries are experiencing unprecedented increases in forest fires as are many other countries around the world.

Certainly in agreement that Ontarians will now suffer the consequences of the voting choices but the liberals gave us little choice so you can't really portray this in the context that we voted for anti green policies. That would be unfair and simply not true.

Voter turnout was up but likely in response to the large numbers of people desiring the liberals out. Let's not forget the extremely poor choices we had in this election. We didn't vote Ford in so much as Wynne out. Populism is the times in which we live. In politics, populism refers to a range of approaches which emphasize the role of "the people" and often juxtapose this group against "the elite". We KNOW Ford has spun Tesla owner's as elitists. We're not blind to the realities of the situation.

I think most here have moved past the concept of Tesla stepping in and doing anything. Having changed the after sale cost for EAP and FSD, clearly they are trying to motivate people to take these options from the start, esp FSD. Personally, I was trying to tie into that in saying if you bought FSD (which I'm sure Tesla would love), maybe they could throw in EAP or even at a reduced price. Free supercharging for a year...anything There was no presumption here that it would or should happen. It's not like we were demanding this...beating down the doors of Tesla to have this done. It may in fact have been considered. We'll never know. It may not be 100% free for them to offer but it's damn close when you factor in the very small number of people involved in this compared to overall global sales. Personally, I feel that Tesla considered their options but felt that a) they needed to continue working with the province so why poke the bear and b) there was no good way of putting a positive marketing spin on it and in fact had negative blowback risk.

One other note about FSD is that the more people using it, the more feedback Tesla is going to get. So in that regard it would be a positive for Tesla.

Regardless, I think you are over stating this group's desire to have Tesla throw anything our way due to this. We're just thinking out loud at times and throwing ideas around. It's not like we are formulating policy or presuming anything will come of it.

Agreed that Trudeau is more interested in his brand than any specific political policy. Some also feel he's engaging in free trade inflammatory rhetoric to polarize Canadians against the evil Trump and be seen as someone who will stand up for us. All for votes.

I would not be surprised to see the Liberals lose the next federal election though I'm not convinced that would be a good thing. The more that people have some regrets about electing Ford probably plays in Trudeau's favor. If the feds continue ignoring green issues, they won't be getting my vote. The pipeline itself could sink Trudeau.

There's been good, informative discussion as we work through these circumstances. In a greater historical perspective, sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before change occurs.

"and this too shall pass"
 
Hey,

I have put about 3600 KM's on my model 3 and I drive anywhere between 100 to 150 per day. So far I only have about 1 bill to compare as I got the care May 31st. It is a blast to drive and you will not be disappointed. I'm paying about $40-50 more this month than last. I would have spent probably around $300 in gas for the same mileage.

Hope this helps. I can update you later again when I have a 2nd bill to help give a more accurate average.

Cheers,

Ryan
Thanks!
 
That is what I get from a website

Tesla Model 3: 23,7 kWh/100 miles – 14,73 kWh/100 km

Tesla Model S: 34,4 kWh/100 miles – 21,38 kWh/100 km

Tesla Model X: 36,9 kWh/100 miles – 22,93 kWh/100 km


at a rate of 6.5 cents/kwh off peak, it is around $0.95, not even a dollar per 100 km.

Amazing

It's not 6.5 cents. You have to add the transportation cost of about 6-7 cents/KWH also.
 
You can't compare year over year $$ in your hydro bill since effective July 2017 Ontario greatly reduced hydro costs (well... They just added more long term debt to pay for this) so my actual hydro cost y/y is actually lower from my June bill... Instead look at kWh usage. I was up 16% in usage. Hard to tell how much M3 actually consumed since usage may vary, but assuming 16% is accurate, that's around $30 for a month, and 1700km
If you charge at night, I would estimate cost per kWh net of all deliveries to be around 10.5-11 cents kwh

This also depends on where you live since delivery costs vary depending on where you live and your local utility I'm on hydro one in medium density (rural estate) delivery rates are cheaper in urban zones

Compounding this is that for people wanting to do more and go solar, we are taken off time of use rates (at least in urban zones) and put on one rate throughout the day. Great if you are home all day and for AC use but for charging at night it actually increases your cost a little.

Meanwhile, the use of EV's in Ontario and charging at night uses electricity that would be otherwise dumped anyway. At least that's my understanding...haven't delved in to the details too much so stand to be corrected...

The PC's are committed to nuclear power generation and keeping hydro rates down. They have effectively killed off the solar industry but not so bad for EV owners ironically.