Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[haromaem]

Completely agree.
I'm still hopeful. However, my hope dwindles every hour of every day as I hover over the dial pad of my cellphone ready to cancel.

I don't want to be the victim of one of two things:

1) Tesla miraculously does *something* to keep our orders - Offers a discounted price or a feature for no charge. Which, anyone who's canceled their order already would be SOL.

and conversely

2) Keep my order and go through with the purchase only to find out post-delivery that the Feds are introducing a rebate of their own which will almost certainly not be retroactive.

That is where we are at.

 

[Techniques]

Not to get all mysterious but there's not much that's going to happen on this front till possibly the end of the week. I think by then or soon after, we'll know exactly where we stand. Stay tuned...

Sorry if I missed this, but what is suppose to happen/get announced this week?

 

[BKR1986]

Not trying to be rude in the slightest, I'm just not sure why everyone is assuming that the rebate wouldn't be applied retroactively? Is that just me being stupidly optimistic lol

My best friend works for the federal government. I had mentioned a rebate or incentive and had voiced my hopes and aspirations that if they did create one, that it would be retroactive. He had said there was literally a 0% chance that it would be retroactive. He said there would be no way to gauge how far back to go. July? What about all the model X and S's that didn't qualify after the $75k cap, do we go that far back?

He said because of this uncertainty, it would be a set date forward. Which is why I'm cautious to proceed. With my luck - the day after I take delivery the feds will release a program that I won't qualify for lol

 

[adaptabl]

Do you have or want aTesla? Just curious what your role is?

I have been on the reservation list for almost a year SR non PUP.

 

[PAWilson]

I have been on the order list for almost a year SR non PUP.

You mean you have a reservation.

 

[Ludatik]

You mean you have a reservation.

Are you saying that you "disagree" with @adaptabl's post???

 

[PAWilson]

Are you saying that you "disagree" with @adaptabl's post???

Perhaps or maybe it is just asking for clarification.

 

[adaptabl]

You mean you have a reservation.

Yes. Actually closer to 6 months.

I would be an immediate buyer at about $35,000CDN + taxes. If the SR non PUP was available tomorrow I would now wait. High 40's is just too much for what you get. $1,000 was not a large amount to risk. It is a far better risk than a Elio deposit (HAHAHA). I have serious concerns about the company ever being profitable. I am one of the major reasons. I believe there is large demand at the lower prices. Look how quickly Tesla went thru the reservation list for LR PUP RWD cars with few takers. There is some demand for the even higher priced models but I feel that is limited. The question will be how long will it be before Tesla or any other auto company can make money on a lower priced car without rebates?

Telsa has enough units out there that they are not going away. The road may be bumpy maybe a bankruptcy reorganization, maybe a partner, maybe enough growth to be able to pay off the debt.

The bottom line I feel is that Tesla has some amazing technology. The problem is they suck at making cars in high volumes at a low cost, they have a very challenging balance sheet to work with and they need to get a better service network. If you are outside a major center you are screwed for service.

 

[Tertulian]

Oh lay off Adaptabl. Sure, we may disagree with some of his thoughts - he might even be trolling - but he’s got a right to do both things without everyone piling on him at every opportunity.

I will say this; when we called him out for simply hitting the ‘Disagree’ button without contributing to the conversation, he piped up even though he knew he might get hate for it. That takes some guts and is worthy of respect (that or it’s exquisite trolling...which is also worthy of respect).

Remember those immortal words: - “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
-(probably not) Voltaire

 

[PAWilson]

Yes. Actually closer to 6 months.

I would be an immediate buyer at about $35,000CDN + taxes. If the SR non PUP was available tomorrow I would now wait. High 40's is just too much for what you get. $1,000 was not a large amount to risk. It is a far better risk than a Elio deposit (HAHAHA). I have serious concerns about the company ever being profitable. I am one of the major reasons. I believe there is large demand at the lower prices. Look how quickly Tesla went thru the reservation list for LR PUP RWD cars with few takers. There is some demand for the even higher priced models but I feel that is limited. The question will be how long will it be before Tesla or any other auto company can make money on a lower priced car without rebates?

Telsa has enough units out there that they are not going away. The road may be bumpy maybe a bankruptcy reorganization, maybe a partner, maybe enough growth to be able to pay off the debt.

The bottom line I feel is that Tesla has some amazing technology. The problem is they suck at making cars in high volumes at a low cost, they have a very challenging balance sheet to work with and they need to get a better service network. If you are outside a major center you are screwed for service.

I see you edited your post from "order" to "reservation". Why didn't you edit the "almost a year" to 'closer to 6 months"?

 

[PAWilson]

Oh lay off Adaptabl. Sure, we may disagree with some of his thoughts - he might even be trolling - but he’s got a right to do both things without everyone piling on him at every opportunity.

I will say this; when we called him out for simply hitting the ‘Disagree’ button without contributing to the conversation, he piped up even though he knew he might get hate for it. That takes some guts and is worthy of respect (that or it’s exquisite trolling...which is also worthy of respect).

Remember those immortal words: - “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
-(probably not) Voltaire

If you are referring to me, I was originally seeking clarification and actually being helpful so he edited his comment.

 

[adaptabl]

I see you edited your post from "order" to "reservation". Why didn't you edit the "almost a year" to 'closer to 6 months"?

The edit button is gone now.

 

[PAWilson]

The edit button is gone now.

Maybe the mods are cracking down on you, better log off while you still can

 

[Tertulian]

If you are referring to me, I was originally seeking clarification and actually being helpful so he edited his comment.

Not calling out anyone in particular...just I’ve noticed a certain trend in general to focus more on the man and less on the argument. The principle of charity (i.e. interpret an opponent’s argument in the best possible light for their case) is exceedingly important in maintaining a civil discussion/debate and I’ve noticed that that was at times failing.

For the record, your comment was pretty ok. You were poking a little fun, but totally within the bounds of civil discourse and you seemed to be also asking for legitimate clarification.

The bottom line? Let’s just all get along.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Yes. Actually closer to 6 months.

I would be an immediate buyer at about $35,000CDN + taxes. If the SR non PUP was available tomorrow I would now wait. High 40's is just too much for what you get. $1,000 was not a large amount to risk. It is a far better risk than a Elio deposit (HAHAHA). I have serious concerns about the company ever being profitable. I am one of the major reasons. I believe there is large demand at the lower prices. Look how quickly Tesla went thru the reservation list for LR PUP RWD cars with few takers. There is some demand for the even higher priced models but I feel that is limited. The question will be how long will it be before Tesla or any other auto company can make money on a lower priced car without rebates?

Telsa has enough units out there that they are not going away. The road may be bumpy maybe a bankruptcy reorganization, maybe a partner, maybe enough growth to be able to pay off the debt.

The bottom line I feel is that Tesla has some amazing technology. The problem is they suck at making cars in high volumes at a low cost, they have a very challenging balance sheet to work with and they need to get a better service network. If you are outside a major center you are screwed for service.

Thanks for this, @adaptabl.

I respect you're waiting for the "affordable" Tesla.

I think it's harsh / premature to say "they suck at making cars in high volumes at a low cost". Their financial troubles are because they have been ramping up and growing - what, 50% per year? - while trying to re-invent multiple industries. As with everything Elon, they're trying to re-imagine auto manufacturing through automation. Yes, they've made some mistakes. But Elon had proven time and time again he can innovate despite the majority thinking he will fail. They will get auto production right, I think. The business plan (EV, no dealers, OTA updates, autonomous controls, powerwalls, etc.) is too strong, and the industry too staid IMO for them not to continue to grow market share. It's not a question of if they will succeed, the only question is, like you suggest, can they do it without needing a major equity partner. Either way, I feel strongly that Tesla cars will be a significant part of the future auto industry - there's no going back (unless you're like Trump and give coal life-support haha).

But I can understand if you're bitter waiting for the promised config while hundreds are bragging about their wonderful new Model 3s. Yours will come, I hope sooner rather than later!

 

[PAWilson]

Not calling out anyone in particular...just I’ve noticed a certain trend in general to focus more on the man and less on the argument. The principle of charity (i.e. interpret an opponent’s argument in the best possible light for their case) is exceedingly important in maintaining a civil discussion/debate and I’ve noticed that that was at times failing.

For the record, your comment was pretty ok. You were poking a little fun, but totally within the bounds of civil discourse and you seemed to be also asking for legitimate clarification.

The bottom line? Let’s just all get along.

True. I welcome discourse. You don't learn much if everyone agrees about everything. I appreciate a different view as long as there is some logical approach or at least some information provided to better understand where they are coming from.

P.S. I was tempted to click 'disagree' to your post

 

[Tertulian]

Thanks for this, @adaptabl.

I respect you're waiting for the "affordable" Tesla.

I think it's harsh / premature to say "they suck at making cars in high volumes at a low cost". Their financial troubles are because they have been ramping up and growing - what, 50% per year? - while trying to re-invent multiple industries. As with everything Elon, they're trying to re-imagine auto manufacturing through automation. Yes, they've made some mistakes. But Elon had proven time and time again he can innovate despite the majority thinking he will fail. They will get auto production right, I think. The business plan (EV, no dealers, OTA updates, autonomous controls, powerwalls, etc.) is too strong, and the industry too staid IMO for them not to continue to grow market share. It's not a question of if they will succeed, the only question is, like you suggest, can they do it without needing a major equity partner. Either way, I feel strongly that Tesla cars will be a significant part of the future auto industry - there's no going back (unless you're like Trump and give coal life-support haha).

But I can understand if you're bitter waiting for the promised config while hundreds are bragging about their wonderful new Model 3s. Yours will come, I hope sooner rather than later!

Case in point - awesome example of folks disagreeing but sticking to the argument at hand.

 

[Tertulian]

True. I welcome discourse. You don't learn much if everyone agrees about everything. I appreciate a different view as long as there is some logical approach or at least some information provided to better understand where they are coming from.

P.S. I was tempted to click 'disagree' to your post

LOL, I tip my hat to you, sir!

 

[Kiyi]

Actually there are things being done in the background that I'm not able to comment on just yet...

cliff hanger..

 

[jkirkwood001]

Case in point - awesome example of folks disagreeing but sticking to the argument at hand.

What the hell, @Tertulian!?! ...Oh wait - you're complimenting me. Um, thanks. I wasn't expecting that on a Tesla forum...