Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[richyrich]

To those complaining about slow refunds, I just looked back at the agreement when I paid my $3200. I think you should count yourselves lucky to be getting the money back at all because this isn't a deposit, it's an "order payment" and it was never refundable:

Order; Nonrefundable Order Payment; Changes. Once you submit your completed order, we will locate a vehicle to match your Vehicle Configuration and coordinate the shipment of the Vehicle for delivery. Your Order Payment covers the cost of these activities and other processing costs and is nonrefundable; it is not a deposit for the Vehicle. ​

Maybe stop bashing Tesla and count your blessings. They would be well within their rights to say no, and pretty much any other company would, including every car dealership I have ever dealt with. Tesla have incurred costs and done you a big favour.

EDIT: Not only that but the very next paragraph is this - not sure how they could have made it any clearer:

Cancellation; Default. We incur significant costs in managing your order, and locating and coordinating delivery logistics for your Vehicle. We may also incur significant costs for remarketing and reselling the Vehicle, including additional coordination, logistics and transport costs. If you cancel or default in this Agreement, you will not be refunded your Order Payment as it has already been earned by us in taking and processing your order. You acknowledge that the Order Payment amount is a fair and reasonable estimate of the actual damages that we have incurred or may incur as a result of your breach of this Agreement, damages that are otherwise impracticable or extremely difficult to determine. When you take delivery of the vehicle we will provide a credit to the final purchase price of your Vehicle equivalent to the amount of the Order Payment you paid. This Order Payment and this Agreement are not made or entered into in anticipation of or pending any conditional sale contract. ​

 

[Dutch24]

I'm curious as to the configurations of the deliveries right now.

Can people that just got delivered or scheduled to get delivered reveal what configurations they chose?

Just helps me understand if I got skipped over or my exact configuration just hasn't been shipped yet.

RWD, Solid Black, Aero's (no to EAP, AWD, P)
Reserved March 2018,
Configured June 27th
Delivery scheduled Sept 1st

 

[PAWilson]

I'm curious as to the configurations of the deliveries right now.

Can people that just got delivered or scheduled to get delivered reveal what configurations they chose?

Just helps me understand if I got skipped over or my exact configuration just hasn't been shipped yet.

There is probably another thread that will better answer your question. This is the rebate thread.

 

[dj_gon]

I cancelled my TM3 last week and just purchased an BMW M2 a day before the announcement of Tesla winning the suit. I called Tesla back and it looks like they have not processed the cancellation.

I log in to my account and my edit button is gone and it looks like the car will be coming in.... but I can't cancel out of my M2 order since I already made a deposit. Needless to say I can cancel or if anyone here wants my TM3 (build below) we'll see if we can transfer ownership, prob easy to change account details and ownership on website and update it with your driver info. Cover me for my $4200 deposit and a small fee and its yours, assuming it makes it in for the refund, to which it looks like it will. Or I cancel now.

PM me. I'm in Toronto.

Build.

• Model 3 Long Range Rear-Wheel Drive
• Solid Black Paint
• 18’’ Aero Wheels
• Premium Interior
• Premium Black
• Enhanced Autopilot

https://www.ontario.ca/page/buying-new-or-used-vehicle-your-rights#section-5

90-day contract cancellation
When you buy a vehicle, a dealer must give you the most accurate information available about a vehicle’s history and key features. If certain information is missing you have 90-days to cancel the contract. If any of the information below is not accurate, you can cancel within 90 days:

• odometer reading (or a statement that distance travelled is not available)
• make, model and year
• whether the vehicle has been “branded” by the Ministry of Transportation as salvage, rebuilt or irreparable
• accurate details of past use (e.g., if the vehicle was used as a taxi, limousine, rental car, police or emergency vehicle)

See if there is anything missing in the contract to get you out of it!

 

[Buggle]

I'm gonna step into the customer service thing for a bit, cause this thread has been very diverted in that direction lately.

1. Tesla is a new company, run by an 'entrepreneur' with everything that entails. Tesla is NOT run by ops people, it's run by artists and dreamers. That's why they've come this far, to the point of the M3.
2. They lose reams of money. The shorts spread a lot of FUD to be sure, but on one point they're completely correct: this company is a money pit. At some point in future that may change, Elon says it may change, but for now, they're a total and complete money pit. I'm not invested in them, but I believe they have outstanding liability in the US$12B range. That is insane. There's no other way to put it. Their financials are absolutely insane. Should they go on to rule the world, it'll all be in the rearview mirror and totally forgotten about. But for right now, their numbers are horrid.
3. In the context of these first two points, where would we like them to save money? Marketing and customer services are both great places to start. I had a horrific delivery experience. After placing my $4,200 deposit I didn't hear from anyone in customer service for a good month. I was reading on this forum about how ppl were having this issue or that issue with their CSR, and I was sitting there thinking "damn... I've never even had a CSR email me, I don't even have anyone to talk to...". Eventually one reached out. It was literally two weeks to my delivery date, and I was travelling in the U.S. I got up at 7am to go use the business centre at the hotel to get everything I needed. I sent it off, including the pics of my trade in. They did not get back to me on the trade in till around a week before delivery. I then needed to adjust the deposit amount, and I couldn't get any information or acknowledgments out of my CSR. I spent and hour on hold with their general number twice to get things sorted.
Throughout all this I was getting frustrated. I was like "****... their CSR is really not sorted out. But then I thought of several things. 1) I really want this company to succeed. 2) I cut them a lot of slack because of my first couple points, and 3) I really wanted the car. So I sucked it up, took a deep breath, and dealt with it all without pestering them endlessly or yelling at them on the phone.

So their customer service sucks right now. That's fine. I want them to succeed more than I want them to be a predictable efficient company.

Everything related to this really falls into the 'first world problems' category. If we want them to succeed, we need to suck it up and deal with it. If *sugar* gets too messed up and someone needs to pull out, then do it. That's life. But this whole rebate thing? This is all Doug Ford's fault. I wouldn't ever expect Tesla to smoothly handle the fallout. They've done what they're able to do, recified things as best they were able. That's good enough for me.

 

[haromaem]

https://www.ontario.ca/page/buying-new-or-used-vehicle-your-rights#section-5

90-day contract cancellation
When you buy a vehicle, a dealer must give you the most accurate information available about a vehicle’s history and key features. If certain information is missing you have 90-days to cancel the contract. If any of the information below is not accurate, you can cancel within 90 days:

• odometer reading (or a statement that distance travelled is not available)
• make, model and year
• whether the vehicle has been “branded” by the Ministry of Transportation as salvage, rebuilt or irreparable
• accurate details of past use (e.g., if the vehicle was used as a taxi, limousine, rental car, police or emergency vehicle)

See if there is anything missing in the contract to get you out of it!

Is this not for resale cars?

 

[Ninetenjack]

I'm not sure when mine left the factory but it was probably around the same time frame or a bit earlier. It seems like a big batch of cars is coming. If you have a DA assigned, I would strongly recommend calling them and seeing if you can expedite delivery (i.e., by Sep 10). I was told that once the car gets to Canada, it takes about 4 business days for transport to the Service Centre and prep for customer delivery. Working back from Sep 10, that means the car needs to be across the border latest around Sep 4.

I called them I spoke with my Delivery Specialist, my car is on the train from Aug 27 so in terms of expediting nothing can be done until the car is in Canada. To be fair he did explain the sequence of how the vehicle gets to the delivery location, first a train to Chicago crosses the border, then to Toronto, then by truck to the delivery site. Logic tells me that should be able to be done within a 14 day window Aug 27th to Sep 10th so the last week of September he is suggesting makes no logical sense to me.

 

[Abrew2014]

To those complaining about slow refunds, I just looked back at the agreement when I paid my $3200. I think you should count yourselves lucky to be getting the money back at all because this isn't a deposit, it's an "order payment" and it was never refundable:

Order; Nonrefundable Order Payment; Changes. Once you submit your completed order, we will locate a vehicle to match your Vehicle Configuration and coordinate the shipment of the Vehicle for delivery. Your Order Payment covers the cost of these activities and other processing costs and is nonrefundable; it is not a deposit for the Vehicle. ​

Maybe stop bashing Tesla and count your blessings. They would be well within their rights to say no, and pretty much any other company would, including every car dealership I have ever dealt with. Tesla have incurred costs and done you a big favour.

EDIT: Not only that but the very next paragraph is this - not sure how they could have made it any clearer:

Cancellation; Default. We incur significant costs in managing your order, and locating and coordinating delivery logistics for your Vehicle. We may also incur significant costs for remarketing and reselling the Vehicle, including additional coordination, logistics and transport costs. If you cancel or default in this Agreement, you will not be refunded your Order Payment as it has already been earned by us in taking and processing your order. You acknowledge that the Order Payment amount is a fair and reasonable estimate of the actual damages that we have incurred or may incur as a result of your breach of this Agreement, damages that are otherwise impracticable or extremely difficult to determine. When you take delivery of the vehicle we will provide a credit to the final purchase price of your Vehicle equivalent to the amount of the Order Payment you paid. This Order Payment and this Agreement are not made or entered into in anticipation of or pending any conditional sale contract. ​

According to Tesla my car was never built so they didn’t occur any significant cost.

You can pray at the church of Elon but if you ask 100 people on the street 95 would agree with me. Frame it like this:

Imagine you saw an ad on the internet for a TV that was $1000 discounted from regular price.

You went to Best Buy and put $1000 down for a $3000 80” TV that arrives next week. When you go to pick up that TV they say the government cancelled a program (which you had no idea they were going to cancel, the sales person never mentioned anything and advertising didn’t say anything) and told you that the TV now costs $4000.

Now I don’t think Best Buy has to sell you the TV for $3000 but the fair thing is to offer the consumer the refund for the $1000 they put down.

If you said that then 95/100 would agree that a timely refund would be a fair solution

 

[Vitold]

Maybe Tesla should not give full refunds. Instead they should keep $500 or so for administrative expenses. That way everyone would get their refunds quickly.

 

[Diesel123]

Please please Tesla:
1. Get me a vin
2. Take my full payment
3. Get it registered and a plate through the MTO by sept 10th (even though car isn’t ready to be picked up or even in Canada)

I’ll pick car up sometime next month when it actually gets into Ontario/off train/ truck/ whatever, just get it registered as fast as you can before Mr Ford changes his mind anymore!

 

[Abrew2014]

Well I think I’m done on these forums, disappointing to go as I was really looking forward to this car but the people on here are more frustrating then the time is worth.

There are some great people on here but the level of fan boy is unappetizing for my tastes.

In parting my only advice would be to hold Tesla accountable, just because they are new doesn’t mean they can get away with whatever they want. Like a kid hold them accountable and it will help them grow into a a mature company and have a better chance to have continued success. Because they are bad at operations and finances it’s no excuse to have poor customer service. If GM builds bad cars it doesn’t matter if customer service is great, they should be held accountable for a bad product.

And finally to quote Michael Jordan “Republicans buy sneakers too”. If you want these forums to be inclusive the Doug Ford bashing is obnoxious for many. I disagree with much of what many politicians do including him but when you come across as superior to “the idiots who voted for Doug Ford” then you are instantly alienating 40% of the population.

Enjoy your cars, I may or may not be back in future but in the meantime I’m going to fill my pick up truck with PC choice buck a beer and going to enjoy life

 

[Harrta]

Well I think I’m done on these forums, disappointing to go as I was really looking forward to this car but the people on here are more frustrating then the time is worth.

There are some great people on here but the level of fan boy is unappetizing for my tastes.

In parting my only advice would be to hold Tesla accountable, just because they are new doesn’t mean they can get away with whatever they want. Like a kid hold them accountable and it will help them grow into a a mature company and have a better chance to have continued success. Because they are bad at operations and finances it’s no excuse to have poor customer service. If GM builds bad cars it doesn’t matter if customer service is great, they should be held accountable for a bad product.

And finally to quote Michael Jordan “Republicans buy sneakers too”. If you want these forums to be inclusive the Doug Ford bashing is obnoxious for many. I disagree with much of what many politicians do including him but when you come across as superior to “the idiots who voted for Doug Ford” then you are instantly alienating 40% of the population.

Enjoy your cars, I may or may not be back in future but in the meantime I’m going to fill my pick up truck with PC choice buck a beer and going to enjoy life

Bye

 

[felixculpas]

Getting back to the actual topic at hand...

One small thing I don't think has been mentioned yet is that the government has 30 days to appeal so while they are on record that a statement would be forthcoming in a few days (according to media reports), it will be interesting to see what they say and when given this is the first of many lawsuits they are likely to face and thus respond to publicly after the fact. The longer they wait, the more they should be seen as targeting Tesla and further discriminating against their customers due to the pain people will incur.

We are about to see how mature Ford and this government really are. Wrap this up, do the right thing and let people get on with their lives.

 

[Tertulian]

Out of curiousity, on behalf of those of us who had to cancel and are now absolutely crushed since it looks like we could have otherwise gotten the rebate...do you think there’s any hope for us?

 

[pcons]

I cancelled my TM3 last week and just purchased an BMW M2 a day before the announcement of Tesla winning the suit. I called Tesla back and it looks like they have not processed the cancellation.

I log in to my account and my edit button is gone and it looks like the car will be coming in.... but I can't cancel out of my M2 order since I already made a deposit. Needless to say I can cancel or if anyone here wants my TM3 (build below) we'll see if we can transfer ownership, prob easy to change account details and ownership on website and update it with your driver info. Cover me for my $4200 deposit and a small fee and its yours, assuming it makes it in for the refund, to which it looks like it will. Or I cancel now.

PM me. I'm in Toronto.

Build.

• Model 3 Long Range Rear-Wheel Drive
• Solid Black Paint
• 18’’ Aero Wheels
• Premium Interior
• Premium Black
• Enhanced Autopilot

Ummm, I was with you until the 'small fee' comment....why exactly?

Are you also the same dude who buys out all the Nintendo mini consoles and tries to sell them at 150% markup?

 

[pcons]

Out of curiousity, on behalf of those of us who had to cancel and are now absolutely crushed since it looks like we could have otherwise gotten the rebate...do you think there’s any hope for us?

No...unless someone else cancels and they may have the exact order to you and you get it before Sept 10th....which isn't likely imo...

 

[Amandeep]

Look, for what it’s worth, I basically spent my summer vacation fighting for this rebate. I actively engaged on social media with the province and PC apologists on a daily basis. I reached out to every ministry I could contact. I collected and sent a considerable amount of information to the Ombudsman.

When I thought the rebate was gone, I began a long process of cataloging my childhood comic and 80’s toys collection, promising my wife that I’d sell them - and my personal collection of RPG books (I am an epic gaming nerd), if necessary, to cover the difference in what we lost on the rebate if I had to. I did all that because I desperately want this car. I believe it’s the best choice for my family long term.

I also called Tesla about a dozen times, and never got a consistent answer. I finally proactively reached out to Tesla administrators and other individuals other than Elon who endeavoured to help me, but never provided me with an answer as to what to expect or how it might turn out. On one ocassion, I called a Canadian number to speak to a delivery specialist - who didn’t answer my call. When I swung around the office mere minutes later, she was at her desk, with her earphones in. Not a great look.

I might be full of myself, but I think few people were as active as me regarding this issue.

I’m saying all this because it’s unfair to jump on anyone who’s dissatisfied with Tesla’s communication on this matter. Right now, Tesla is an amazing, innovative company, who makes the best car in the world, and who happens to suck at communicating with prospective customers like us. I suspect I knew more than most about what was going on due to my proactivity, and I still feel that I knew way too little to be comfortable.

Bottom line: I wish Tesla was better at customer relations. If anyone from Tesla is reading this, please make it a priority. We love you, but it feels like you’re just not that into us. I personally know someone who would be great at this job, and I feel you need someone. I’m not alone in feeling this way.

Thank you Sir

 

[richyrich]

According to Tesla my car was never built so they didn’t occur any significant cost. You can pray at the church of Elon

Pretty pathetic comeback. All I'm pointing out to you is YOU made an agreement, then tried to back out of it. Per the exact (and VERY clear) terms you agreed to, Tesla has absolutely no reason to give you the money back, but they are. Feel grateful and move on instead of hating.

 

[Buggle]

Well I think I’m done on these forums, disappointing to go as I was really looking forward to this car but the people on here are more frustrating then the time is worth.

There are some great people on here but the level of fan boy is unappetizing for my tastes.

In parting my only advice would be to hold Tesla accountable, just because they are new doesn’t mean they can get away with whatever they want. Like a kid hold them accountable and it will help them grow into a a mature company and have a better chance to have continued success. Because they are bad at operations and finances it’s no excuse to have poor customer service. If GM builds bad cars it doesn’t matter if customer service is great, they should be held accountable for a bad product.

And finally to quote Michael Jordan “Republicans buy sneakers too”. If you want these forums to be inclusive the Doug Ford bashing is obnoxious for many. I disagree with much of what many politicians do including him but when you come across as superior to “the idiots who voted for Doug Ford” then you are instantly alienating 40% of the population.

Enjoy your cars, I may or may not be back in future but in the meantime I’m going to fill my pick up truck with PC choice buck a beer and going to enjoy life

Don't you worry, being held accountable is the last problem Tesla has these days lol... there's TRILLIONS of dollars trying to ruin them, that causes pressure, let me tell you...

Well, maybe not trillions. Let's just call it a lot.

 

[Amandeep]

The call centre and production have nothing to do with one another, and either way you are contradicting yourself. If he is "1 out of 100s" that call daily, how can that have any effect on delaying people from getting their car as you claim? Its not like they have a phone beside the paint station, and every time the phone rings the one guy painting cars has to answer it...Sorry, not getting why you seem so bothered about someone standing up for what is right?

This isn't about 'getting a car sooner' it's about fighting an unjust policy put in place by a rookie govt that singled out tesla to try and score cheap political points....and it blew up in their faces.

KEvans (Kurt, I guess) fought for this and I commend that. I have to admit, I thought this fight was over long ago, and am happy to see that in this case a wrong is (possibly) being corrected. You have to give him credit for his tenacity.

As far as delaying peoples cars in the US (I presume that's why you're bothered by this?)...all the demand in Canada is likely fulfilled by 2-3 weeks of production. So, maybe because of the push to deliver cars before the sept 10 deadline there are another 100 or so more cars diverted to Canada (Ontario)....that's what, about 2 hours of production? What's the problem with that exactly?

As others have said, hats of to @KEvans . I wish my kid had all his teachers as such a good role model. Kurt, hopefully your students take your actions as a lesson to never give up. I hate to say it (and you alluded to this in one of your comments), but this new govt is going to make things tough for teachers...keep the fight going my man!

Well said
Hats off to Kurt