Our thoughts on FSD Beta now detecting Autopilot cheat devices | TMC Podcast Clip

FSD Beta V10.69.3.1 can sense the use of defeat devices that some owners were employing in order to avoid having to keep their hands on the steering wheel. We ask how it is doing this.

This is a clip from Tesla Motors Club Podcast #27. The full podcast video is available here: https://youtu.be/LtDViqsiAMc

 

[ChimpledPot]

What model and year do you drive? I’m seeing reports of people with interior cameras not getting strikes for cheat device warnings…including me. It would make sense if the wheel is the ONLY attention checking device…

That one is not applicable to me. I have an interior camera and it's always uncovered.

 

[dgatwood]

That detection (and response!), to the extent it exists, should still operate with FSD disabled. Obviously a bit tricky to test but no reason to think it would be disabled since no other safety features are.

The response I'm talking about is things like steering and slowing to give extra space to pedestrians and cyclists. AFAIK, without FSD, the only thing it does is slam on the brakes if it thinks a pedestrian is about to cross your path, which is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as preemptively slowing down and steering to give them space, which presumably only happens if the car is doing the steering.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The response I'm talking about is things like steering and slowing to give extra space to pedestrians and cyclists. AFAIK, without FSD, the only thing it does is slam on the brakes if it thinks a pedestrian is about to cross your path, which is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as preemptively slowing down and steering to give them space, which presumably only happens if the car is doing the steering.

I’m assuming the driver is driving of course. If they miss a cyclist , slamming on the brakes is ok. This will be very rare. It’s a safety feature after all. The convenience feature is steering around cyclists for you, which you would do if you did not have the feature.

steering to give them space, which presumably only happens if the car is doing the steering.

I give cyclists space when driving; same with other VRUs.

Pretty sure humans can see a lot more VRUs than the car can at the moment!

 

[AWDtsla]

4. Assume that they'll do a strike reset for V11 anyway, contact the FSD team and complain about the bogus strike, post on Twitter complaining about the bogus strike, and generally make as much noise as possible. If everyone complained enough about false strikes to cause bad press, then their engineering management would pay more much attention to user satisfaction than to the trolls trying to get FSD banned for failing to detect abuse.

This is not even an FSD thing. Strikes during autopilot are being used against FSD. Although on a road trip today I was remarking at the number of tesla's we saw on the highway that were clearly NOT using autopilot, as they didn't center in lane at all. Funny the autopilot strike happened at the end of that trip. Ok, so many people aren't using autopilot on the highway. They probably find it too annoying, not having figured out the (previously) working hand placement.

 

[MissaB]

Yes, I continue to notice this. I’ve been experimenting with not torquing the wheel at all and nags are quite infrequent now. And easy to dismiss. Kind of annoying to have to look for the initial warning on the bottom of the screen as you say. They should put that warning on the top of the screen like the blue flashing. And maybe just have it flash first in a more discreet way, then flash over a larger area or whatever. That way can have more discreet dismissal of nags.

But hopefully they go away entirely at some point of course (see below).

I’ll have to do a better job of counting (do have video), but I think I got maybe 4-5 nags in 22 minutes with my hands on the wheel, intentionally providing zero torque.



That’s great. Hopefully Tesla will continue to work on recognizing the posture when hands are on the wheel and reward that with zero nags.

It seems really close to that no nag condition right now (I have not experimented with hands in lap visible to camera). But not close enough!

I've never used a device (had to Google them to figure out what they are) but I got FSD disengaged for just holding the steering wheel like I usually do. So I said ok fine, I'll just keep my hands off completely and only touch the wheel on the prompt. Yeah, got the error again and it disengaged. I'm pissed and puzzled. When my hubs took over driving, within 10 min of being back on the road, same error, same disengage. I don't know how to make this stupidity stop. I paid way too much to never get to responsibly use this function for long trips!

 

[MissaB]

I recently got FSD beta on the recent update. I was using it today and my steering wheel gave me a warning that I was using an autopilot antidefeat device. I just recently got this car and have never owned or plan on using one of these devices. I think maybe its too sensitive because if it does it 3-4 more additional times I get kicked out of FSD, which is not fair since I never used one of the devices to begin with. That would be wrong because they are kicking me out of something for which I paid extra for.

I will add that I use a combination of applying wheel torque and just pressing the autopilot stock whenever I get the flashing blue lights to keep my hands on the steering wheel. When the message popped up there were no flashing blue lights or warning to put my hands on steering wheel.

Anyone else have this happen?

Yes and it's annoying as all get out! I don't know how, aside from taking video of my husband driving and proving we're just using our hands and the thing thinks we're using a device. I'm over it.

 

[AWDtsla]

I've never used a device (had to Google them to figure out what they are) but I got FSD disengaged for just holding the steering wheel like I usually do. So I said ok fine, I'll just keep my hands off completely and only touch the wheel on the prompt. Yeah, got the error again and it disengaged. I'm pissed and puzzled. When my hubs took over driving, within 10 min of being back on the road, same error, same disengage. I don't know how to make this stupidity stop. I paid way too much to never get to responsibly use this function for long trips!

Do what I do now, don't pay attention to the road, look down at the display instead so you can not miss the next nag warning.

PS, don't sue me, sue Tesla.

 

[markinsf]

I use a cheat device as the warning for the autopilot attention is blocked by my steering wheel. There is no way for me to see it. If it would be on the main middle screen - that would be wonderful as I could actually see the flipping thing!

Did a 5-hour road trip this weekend and was getting some stupid messages about "strikes" and "FSD." Thought it had something to with the FSD beta thing - I could not care less about participating in Tesla's foolhardy attempt at anything above Level 3 FSD (NEVER GONNA HAPPEN, ELON!).

On my trip my auto pilot would turn off immediately. After the 6-7th time, I saw the message about using a "defeat device." Tesla, you are so friggin' stupid. I bought this car mostly because of the autopilot. I do not want to rest my hands on the steering wheel. I keep my eyes on the road - that is enough. I will know make it my mission to defeat the defeat detection!!!

And, no more updates for my car. Will never approve another one. Seems things have just gotten worse - not better.

 

[Raurele]

I use a cheat device as the warning for the autopilot attention is blocked by my steering wheel. There is no way for me to see it. If it would be on the main middle screen - that would be wonderful as I could actually see the flipping thing!

Did a 5-hour road trip this weekend and was getting some stupid messages about "strikes" and "FSD." Thought it had something to with the FSD beta thing - I could not care less about participating in Tesla's foolhardy attempt at anything above Level 3 FSD (NEVER GONNA HAPPEN, ELON!).

On my trip my auto pilot would turn off immediately. After the 6-7th time, I saw the message about using a "defeat device." Tesla, you are so friggin' stupid. I bought this car mostly because of the autopilot. I do not want to rest my hands on the steering wheel. I keep my eyes on the road - that is enough. I will know make it my mission to defeat the defeat detection!!!

And, no more updates for my car. Will never approve another one. Seems things have just gotten worse - not better.

How close are you to your steering wheel? Are you saying you can’t see any of the nav section? Rethink your seating position. Most can see the whole screen.

 

[dgatwood]

How close are you to your steering wheel? Are you saying you can’t see any of the nav section? Rethink your seating position. Most can see the whole screen.

It is annoyingly placed, in a tiny area at the bottom center, when it should be in giant letters covering the entire middle of the instrument cluster screen. I had to adjust my steering wheel height because I noticed I couldn't see it, either. So that's a valid complaint, IMO. Bad UI design.

 

[heltok]

I had one of those stealth devices. Lent my car to a friend when I went abroad. He took the car to service during the time. when he got it back from service, he was surprised about the nagging him all the time. Je couldn't find the setting how to turn it off the nag, after a while he asked me about it and the strange metal object he found in the car after the service ^^

Anyway, driving monitoring >> pulling the steering wheel all the time.

 

[drdumont]

I don't know why the persist with the wheel tug anyway. They should be able to do the job with eye/head monitoring for cars with cameras.

Similar to the alerter in railroad engines. After awhile, you just automatically reset the alerter before it squawks. In most of my engines, there is a capacitive touch plate you just tap with a finger. But of you leave an extremely on it for more than a few seconds, it squawks.

I would welcome voice warnings in Teslas rather than the beeps and boops which take time to mentally decipher before taking action..