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P3D Highway Range — Early Cautious Optimism

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ForeverFree

Member
Supporting Member
Jul 9, 2015
639
1,446
Sherman Oaks, CA
Went dual motor for skiing and handling, but was disappointed about having to give up 8% range (308 vs. 334 on EPA testing cycle).

Several TMC posters, though, cautioned not to worry too much too soon. They pointed out that EPA testing is dyno only, with no way to adjust for aero effects, other than a crude multiplier. They reasoned that with so such a high proportion of actual Tesla highway energy use going to overcome air resistance, and with AWD Model 3’s differing only modestly in weight (about one passenger’s worth) and motor friction (added freewheeling front motor), actual highway range might not be 8% lower than RWD. And, if you think about it, the multiplier multiplies the AWD’s lower dyno efficiency by a constant to imply lower aero efficiency, as well ... which makes no sense.

My limited early experience leaves me cautiously optimistic on this front.

Today, we took a 160-mile round trip from our house (elev 900) to the Mount Pinos trailhead (8300 feet) and back. A lot of interstate driving (74 mph, except in backups), plus rural and mountain highways (45-65 mph). Spirited, when appropriate. Aero caps off.

Average energy use 236 Wh/mile. Which had us burn 160 “range miles” to cover a like actual distance.

What really impressed me was the downhill efficiency. Zero energy used during a 50+ mile downhill stretch on the return. Elevation drop about 6000 feet ... a little over one vertical mile. That’s almost a 50-1 “glide ratio” ... a 2% grade that most high-end sailplanes would be proud of.

Time and highway driving will tell the tale, but I’m now at least cautiously hopeful that the AWD range hit will prove smaller than many of us had feared.

As more AWDs get delivered, I’m eager to hear what others discover.

Fingers crossed!


52260F5C-1022-4059-BA79-9161FCC69A53.jpeg
 
@ForeverFree I'd be curious on your next trip what sort of range you can get with the aeros on? The extra efficiency and range in the smaller wheels with aeros was what led me to change my order to remove the 5K performance package.

This is really promising news! It also shows the stark limitations of the EPA testing routine when evaluating EVs and real world range.
 
Sweet!
One question: How does the regen affect the car going downhill? Specifically, does it slow you right down or can you maintain "highway" speeds?

You can modulate the regen with the go-pedal. Let off all the way and the car slows hard. Push on it a little and it will slow-down less. Push on it more and it will accelerate.
 
You can modulate the regen with the go-pedal. Let off all the way and the car slows hard. Push on it a little and it will slow-down less. Push on it more and it will accelerate.
Ah, so basically one pedal driving is like a pedal that is sort of like a clutch/gas/brake pedal all in one. There's a catch/breaking point that separates the go from the stop functions. The exact catch/breaking point is where the car maintains a constant speed. I also assume this catch/breaking point fluctuates depending on the incline?
 
Ah, so basically one pedal driving is like a pedal that is sort of like a clutch/gas/brake pedal all in one. There's a catch/breaking point that separates the go from the stop functions. The exact catch/breaking point is where the car maintains a constant speed. I also assume this catch/breaking point fluctuates depending on the incline?

Exactly. There's also a point where you're in neutral. The power meter goes to the right when using power and to the left when generating power. When in the middle, you are coasting. When I give test drives, I tell people that the car doesn't coast. If you want to coast, you need to push on the pedal a little. That usually makes sense to them.
 
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Thank you, @ForeverFree ! I have AWD non-P on order and have been going back and forth on if I should change to a RWD due to the fairly heavy expected range loss. I'm in Canada, in a region where we have to worry more about ice on the roads than anything else. Starting to feel a little better now, especially with you going 74MPH with no aeros.

Will be very interesting to see as more stats come in, what the average will be.

Thanks for your detailed analysis!
 
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It may be just me but my driving has been a lot more efficient since my last firmware update. Don't know if they tweaked some driving behavior or just calculate how efficiency is calculated.

Drove ~210mi yesterday with with ~98% of it on freeway. My lifetime is 246Wh/mi with over 15k miles 3LR. I usually have AP set to 75MPH. There wasn't a lot of stop and go traffic in the Bay Area yesterday too. When I got back home ended up averaging 229Wh/mi which is quite a bit better than my normal drives this distance. I'd be lucky to average 250Wh/mi with long freeway drives. With the weather so warm in my area, this should impact the efficiency too. I didn't notice any tailwind which would help the efficiency.
 
It may be just me but my driving has been a lot more efficient since my last firmware update. Don't know if they tweaked some driving behavior or just calculate how efficiency is calculated.

Drove ~210mi yesterday with with ~98% of it on freeway. My lifetime is 246Wh/mi with over 15k miles 3LR. I usually have AP set to 75MPH. There wasn't a lot of stop and go traffic in the Bay Area yesterday too. When I got back home ended up averaging 229Wh/mi which is quite a bit better than my normal drives this distance. I'd be lucky to average 250Wh/mi with long freeway drives. With the weather so warm in my area, this should impact the efficiency too. I didn't notice any tailwind which would help the efficiency.

Hi @CuriousG , what was your wheel config?
 
Went dual motor for skiing and handling, but was disappointed about having to give up 8% range (308 vs. 334 on EPA testing cycle).

Several TMC posters, though, cautioned not to worry too much too soon. They pointed out that EPA testing is dyno only, with no way to adjust for aero effects, other than a crude multiplier. They reasoned that with so such a high proportion of actual Tesla highway energy use going to overcome air resistance, and with AWD Model 3’s differing only modestly in weight (about one passenger’s worth) and motor friction (added freewheeling front motor), actual highway range might not be 8% lower than RWD. And, if you think about it, the multiplier multiplies the AWD’s lower dyno efficiency by a constant to imply lower aero efficiency, as well ... which makes no sense.

View attachment 320731

As far as I understand, that is incorrect. There are programmed road loads into the dyno testing equipment that account for things like aerodynamic loads.

The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates

While its possible that the road loads don't accurately account for all aero situations (particularly winds at yaw angles different than 0 degree - straight on), the tests should represent the differences between the vehicles fairly accurately.
 
@ForeverFree

What's your average Wh/mi on flat terrain at highway speed?


Still trying to get a number not contaminated by big hills, strong winds, or major slowdowns.

Trying to filter all of that stuff out, I’d say 255 @ 74 mph. (Why 74? As a cop friend has told me, “Nine you’re fine, ten you’re mine!”)