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Feel free to play semantics. The comment I responded to said it was violating the manufacturers stated conditions for using it.

That's not semantics, it's facts.

it violates the MFGs conditions for using it. Explicitly.

And for reasons beyond "liability" too.

F
If you want to believe they are going to void warranties for people that use track mode, go for it.

if you want to make up things I never claimed, go for it... oh, wait, you just did :)



THAT said. We do know when there IS an accident, Tesla has records of what the car was doing. And often reports data like if EAP was engaged or not- if the driver had ignored any warnings before a crash, etc.

So it's certain they'd also notice, and report, the vehicle was using a feature on public roads they explicitly state is not for use on public roads, and which disables numerous basic safety features of the car.

This information wouldn't really change their liability- but might well change that of the driver.
 
That's not semantics, it's facts.

it violates the MFGs conditions for using it. Explicitly.

And for reasons beyond "liability" too.



if you want to make up things I never claimed, go for it... oh, wait, you just did :)



THAT said. We do know when there IS an accident, Tesla has records of what the car was doing. And often reports data like if EAP was engaged or not- if the driver had ignored any warnings before a crash, etc.

So it's certain they'd also notice, and report, the vehicle was using a feature on public roads they explicitly state is not for use on public roads, and which disables numerous basic safety features of the car.

This information wouldn't really change their liability- but might well change that of the driver.
No, that's semantics. "uhh, you said ONLY for liabilty, haha, I got you".:rolleyes:

What are you talking about MFG conditions? So you believe they will void your warranty for using it on the street? If not then I don't know what point you are trying to make. What do you think it's for then? I'd love to hear it. Seems like you are just trying to start a fight.
 
No, that's semantics. "uhh, you said ONLY for liabilty, haha, I got you"

No, it's factually not.

Because track mode disabled basic safety features of the car

Not's not just a CYA disclaimer. It's relevant factual info about why you shouldn't use it on public roads.


It's exactly the same thing we tell new Tesla owners about not using EAP driving through their neighborhood.


Not sure how you're not getting that.


What are you talking about MFG conditions?

The MFG states under what conditions the feature should be used. And under which it should not.

Again just like EAP features.

For some reason you think they don't have any good reason to do that beyond their own liability this time though, rather than for the safety of others on public roads.


So you believe they will void your warranty for using it on the street?

Second time I'm telling you to stop making up things I never said.

not sure why you aren't getting that either.


If not then I don't know what point you are trying to make


Clearly :)


. What do you think it's for then?

Since you didn't understand the first 3 times I explained it I'm unsure what you think repeating it a 4th time will accomplish? Just go back and re-read what I actually said instead of making up things I didn't.



Seems like you are just trying to start a fight.

Then once again you are inaccurately understanding the situation.[/QUOTE]
 
No, it's factually not.

Because track mode disabled basic safety features of the car

Not's not just a CYA disclaimer. It's relevant factual info about why you shouldn't use it on public roads.
So your whole point is that it is there just to tell people that it takes away safety features which is dangerous on a public road. Yes, that's different enough from what I said to start a pages long argument.o_O

What are the two reasons company issue safety warnings? (hint, liability and informing customers)
 
Some folks are so much invested in being right. It really damps down actual discussion.

Its pretty clear to me at least: Tesla doesn't want you to use track mode on public streets, it makes the car less safe to allow wheel slippage especially to the unprepared driver. By including the disclaimer they cover themselves for people doing stupid stuff and blaming Tesla. Tesla is in an extremely delicate place right now and some bad press could really set the stock and company on a bad path.

I choose to believe the prepared driver can handle themselves and the car. Even if they can't control the car well, this car is still safer than a mid 2000 muscle car.

While obviously you can engage track mode on any road, doing so incurs some risk. I think all of us can agree on that. Some drivers probably shouldn't as they lack the necessary skills.

I'm interested to see others opinions on actual issues that would impact the car or the warranty rather than a pedantic discussion about the text of the disclaimer. What are the down sides of track mode? Warranty issues, perhaps liability or longevity issues.
 
What are the down sides of track mode? Warranty issues, perhaps liability or longevity issues.

Regarding the actual issues, they did mention that the AC unit is "overclocked" (somebody reminded me of that change today). I assume that the unit won't actually go above the normal output unless the car really does heat up and calls for it. That should only happen on the track as it's hard to drive like that on the street. That's the only extra wear and tear I can see.

On the warranty side, if your AC until fails and they pull logs that show that your car has used track mode in extreme circumstances (i.e. it looks like you have been beating on it at the track) I imagine they would refuse to honor the claim on that item. Track mode shouldn't impact our warranties at all, it's the actual track driving that can prevent warranty claims. Track mode just may allow you to push the components closer to the point of failure.
 
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Regarding the actual issues, they did mention that the AC unit is "overclocked" (somebody reminded me of that change today). I assume that the unit won't actually go above the normal output unless the car really does heat up and calls for it. That should only happen on the track as it's hard to drive like that on the street. That's the only extra wear and tear I can see.

I think it goes in to overclock mode the second you turn it on to start precooling the battery and motors.
 
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So your whole point is that it is there just to tell people that it takes away safety features which is dangerous on a public road. Yes, that's different enough from what I said to start a pages long argumen

Reminder- you started the argument with me.

I was talking to Perry and you took issue with my pointing out Tesla states the feature isn't, ever, supposed to be used on public roads.

So you felt whatever it was you were claiming was "different enough" from the facts I was presenting to argue over it.

Now you're mad about it apparently.

Weird.




I'm interested to see others opinions on actual issues that would impact the car or the warranty rather than a pedantic discussion about the text of the disclaimer. What are the down sides of track mode? Warranty issues, perhaps liability or longevity issues.


I think there's a couple of items.

Less safe obviously.

And while everyone thinks they are a better than average driver, obviously more than half of them are wrong about that :)


Personal liability which I mentioned- because Tesla will have records you were in track mode on a pubic street when you spun out and killed 3 people.


On warranty/longevity- there was this post the other day-

Update from Tesla on Track Mode Warranty


It claims Tesla rep told them any problems that happen during track mode aren't covered.



I suspect that's more the case of level 1 reps often having no idea WTF they're talking about though.

THAT said... the warranty does say:

Model 3 warranty said:
This New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from normal wear or deterioration, abuse, misuse, negligence, accident, improper maintenance, operation, storage or transport, including, but not limited to, any of the following::

...
• Driving over uneven, rough, damaged or hazardous surfaces, including but not limited to, curbs, potholes, unfinished roads, debris, or other obstacles, or in competition, racing or autocross or for any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed;

Where that's weird is since TM is from Tesla, it's obviously 'designed' to use it.

And as we all remember- they explicitly state to use it on non-public roads- like, say, closed course race tracks.



I expect while there might be some extreme abuse case for which they might not honor a warranty, mostly they won't do that- and that a significant portion of the $11,000 paid for the software unlock (or I guess 6k now) was specifically to cover higher warranty costs on P models.
 
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Warranty excludes: "for any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed"

Where that's weird is since TM is from Tesla, it's obviously 'designed' to use it.

And as we all remember- they explicitly state to use it on non-public roads- like, say, closed course race tracks.

So since track mode says it isn't designed for use on public roads your warranty is voided while using track mode on public roads. Using the vehicle for purposes for which it is not designed. (Which happens to sortof agree with the email that someone got about track mode and warranty coverage.)

Track mode use on a track is a little more of a grey area. Obviously they say it is for use on a track so you are good there, but not if you are "in competition, racing or autocross". So I guess as long as you are just out on the track having fun and aren't in competition or racing you would be covered? :rolleyes::eek:
 
That's possible. If the car isn't hot it may not ramp up to that level until it is required but I have no idea how they programmed it or if the AC compressor can even operate at different power levels.

The write up I remember talked about pre-cooling the drive train, so I imagine there is some benefit to just letting track mode run while stopped to get the greatest pre-cooling available, even if the car isn't hot. Not sure what the limit of this is, if the compressor is permanently "overclocked" while in track mode or if there is some point, time or temp when the compressor goes off.

Where that's weird is since TM is from Tesla, it's obviously 'designed' to use it.
And as we all remember- they explicitly state to use it on non-public roads- like, say, closed course race tracks.
I expect while there might be some extreme abuse case for which they might not honor a warranty, mostly they won't do that- and that a significant portion of the $11,000 paid for the software unlock (or I guess 6k now) was specifically to cover higher warranty costs on P models.

Thanks for that link, good info about the warranty and track mode. Not sure they can justify denying a warranty claim for a mode they included? But regardless the warranty does not exclude using track mode, just "Racing, competition, or Autocross" So as I read that, a HPDE, or track day would be covered, while a time trial or race event would not be covered.

I guess MP3Mike makes a good point, that clause could be a reason for excluding warranty damages while using track mode on public streets. I'd love an official clarification from Tesla on this.
 
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The write up I remember talked about pre-cooling the drive train, so I imagine there is some benefit to just letting track mode run while stopped to get the greatest pre-cooling available, even if the car isn't hot. Not sure what the limit of this is, if the compressor is permanently "overclocked" while in track mode or if there is some point, time or temp when the compressor goes off.
Definitely as you will start off with greater heat sink capacity. The question is if it "overclocks" as soon as your turn it on or if it waits until needed.
Warranty excludes: "for any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed"



So since track mode says it isn't designed for use on public roads your warranty is voided while using track mode on public roads. Using the vehicle for purposes for which it is not designed. (Which happens to sortof agree with the email that someone got about track mode and warranty coverage.)

Track mode use on a track is a little more of a grey area. Obviously they say it is for use on a track so you are good there, but not if you are "in competition, racing or autocross". So I guess as long as you are just out on the track having fun and aren't in competition or racing you would be covered? :rolleyes::eek:
That applies to most performance cars. Yes, technically it isn't for racing, but also they sell us these performance cars with race metrics and components. It's a gray area intentionally so that automakers can protect themselves from huge warranty liabilities. IMO it's not something that casual users should worry about.

In previous car/racing/mod communities I've been involved in it was always aftermarket modifications that were the big warranty risk.
Not according to Elon. He said in track mode we don't disable things, we add things to make the car more trackable.
It does disable those two things. I think he meant "we don't just disable things, we make them actively assist".
 
No, it definitely is not.

You said it was "just" for liability.

But that's not true.

Enabling TM disables numerous basic safety features of the vehicle. They're not telling you that just to avoid getting sued, they're telling you that because disabling safety features makes the car less safe to actually operate on public roads.
Less safe for those who don't know how to drive without those aides. Yes the car becomes less idiot proof if that was not obvious. They have to say that to cover their buts against a litigious public who might claim they didn't know. In reality everyone knows.
 
Yes what he said. If I get track mode I'll be using it most of the time.

Even if that means you void the warranty while driving on public roads? :eek:

Did you purchase EAP? If so that seems like a waste since isn't EAP totally disabled in track mode? (I get that track mode is about you driving and EAP is more about you not driving, so they are sort of mutually exclusive.)
 
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THAT said. We do know when there IS an accident, Tesla has records of what the car was doing. And often reports data like if EAP was engaged or not- if the driver had ignored any warnings before a crash, etc.

So it's certain they'd also notice, and report, the vehicle was using a feature on public roads they explicitly state is not for use on public roads, and which disables numerous basic safety features of the car.

This information wouldn't really change their liability- but might well change that of the driver.
What do you get out of being such a kill joy? Isn't it obvious if I get into a crash that is a result of my driving that I would be responsible for all that ensues. The reason for these track mode disclaimers is because your kind would even contemplate it being someone else's fault.

No safety features are disabled by Elon's own statements. They are enhanced to achieve a different more driver centric behavior. It turns the car into the ultimate driving machine as BMW would put it.
 
I'm hoping to finally get my P3D- back from servicing the delivery issues tomorrow. Maybe I will ask if they can refund me 11k and flash me to an AWD while I'm there. Or maybe I should point out, "hey it's missing the PUP, aren't you guys delivering these with PUP these days?" when pick it up. This is of course assuming they actually fixed it right, otherwise back to the shop it goes until they can delivery me a proper car... Pretty sure it's 30 days for a lemon buy back in California, so I might have that card riding for me.
 
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