Elon never said that. (Mention safety features.) He was talking about traction/stability control. And the manual and on-screen warning before enabling track mode specifically states otherwise:
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Elon never said that. (Mention safety features.) He was talking about traction/stability control. And the manual and on-screen warning before enabling track mode specifically states otherwise:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Replace joy with pedestrian and I can ask you the same thing
You don't seem to understand how any of this works legally.
Accident and negligence aren't the same thing.
"I was just driving normally and lost control" is an accident. Certainly there's some liability, but it's nowhere near as large as "I was just driving in a mode explicitly not for use on public roads, and knowingly turning off multiple safety features and lost control" and that second one likely opens up potentially criminal charges on top.
That's apart from the warranty stuff mp3mike brought up too.
.... what?
Once again- both factually wrong about what Elon said, and factually wrong based on what the Track Mode section of the owners manual says.
Are you EVER not wrong about facts?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You've had that card for days now- your sig says 10/17 and in the shop since- you passed 30 days many days ago.
If you actually wanted them to buy it back you've had the chance for a while now- and it's been pointed out to you multiple times.
Perry
Active Member
I would probably answer yes to that. What's the point of a performance car if you don't have fun with it. I would still expect warranty coverage on things that I don't deem related to using that mode though.Even if that means you void the warranty while driving on public roads?
Did you purchase EAP? If so that seems like a waste since isn't EAP totally disabled in track mode? (I get that track mode is about you driving and EAP is more about you not driving, so they are sort of mutually exclusive.)
For those of us who enjoy driving cars to the limits, EAP is kind of an oxymoron so no I did not buy it. I am in the EAP trial now and although I have tried it as a novelty, I see no use for it. In fact I think it is more dangerous for me since, with it, my brain has to do more things. I have to asses the road conditions, then asses the car's behavior to said road conditions, and then have to decide when to intervene while assessing the road and the car. That decision tree is way more complex and fatiguing than normal driving which is asses and act.
Self driving only makes sense when it's good enough for me to sleep in the back or do some work while the car takes me door to door with zero intervention from me.
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Perry
Active Member
Well that wasn't Elon that said that. And again they weren't talking about AP related safety features.
@Knightshade - sorry you had to piss into the wind
Using Track Mode on public roads as a "suggestion?"
Regulatory agencies are pushing for FCW, AEB, etc to be standard with eventual transition to MANDATORY. Though any auto maker with a brain won't wait that long.
WRONG
Straight from page 60 of the updated Model 3 Owners manual:
Note: When Track Mode is enabled, all Autopilot features are disabled or unavailable (including safety features such as Automatic Emergency Braking, Forward Collision Warning, etc.).
Using Track Mode on public roads as a "suggestion?"
Regulatory agencies are pushing for FCW, AEB, etc to be standard with eventual transition to MANDATORY. Though any auto maker with a brain won't wait that long.
WRONG
Straight from page 60 of the updated Model 3 Owners manual:
Note: When Track Mode is enabled, all Autopilot features are disabled or unavailable (including safety features such as Automatic Emergency Braking, Forward Collision Warning, etc.).
Perry
Active Member
You're right, my mistake. I remembered the source incorrectly. It was the engineer specifically tasked to managing the development of Track Mode, Michael Neumeyer, Tesla Manager of Chassis Controls. That gives it even more weight.
I wasn't either. I was specifically talking about Track Mode. I don't care about EAP. I don't even have that. The argument was that safety features are being disabled in track mode. I contend that they are still there just modified to allow, and I quote: "more advanced driving modes".
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But they are as very clearly spelled out in the manual: "When Track Mode is enabled, all Autopilot features are disabled or unavailable (including safety features such as Automatic Emergency Braking, Forward Collision Warning, etc.)."
Which makes sense since most tracks require that you disable AEB when you are on the track.
Perry
Active Member
Those are bonuses. Most cars don't have those so if you want to hang your argument on these two features then I will concede that the M3 in Track Mode will be at least as safe as most other cars on the road without those two bonus features. It will still probably be safer for other body construction related reasons.
As an aside the Automatic Emergency Braking has shown in a few cases to have false positively been activated from cast shadows on the road. I personally would not miss being thrown through the front windshield on the car's whim.
I think this is an important point (and someone else made it earlier too): Even in track mode the Model 3 is safer than most street-legal muscle cars - and those things are always in track mode! (They probably have some kind of warning in their owner's manual about the power, but that's about it.)
If you want to be super safe, have friends or family abroad, etc. just don't use it.
If you are in a controlled environment - you decide! - it's ok to learn the limits of the car. No nanny state please.
@Perry how many experienced Tesla owners have to explain that you are nucking futz before you will accept it.
If I were Tesla and I read what you wrote, granting track mode to 3P- would be the last thing I would do.
No reward, all risk.
If I were Tesla and I read what you wrote, granting track mode to 3P- would be the last thing I would do.
No reward, all risk.
Good idea. Give them options. Let them know your thoughts and preferences: a) free PUP (or $5K), b) 11K back and AWD, c) Return via lemon law and get a new replacement (- not necessarily in that order).
Gather facts. Give 'em hell! Tell 'em Elon gypped the P- folks in his tweets. (They might find that funny.)
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Tesla Manager of Chassis control.... The person that managed the people that setup and designed the controls for Track mode.
How more clear can it get?
Who gives crap if it voids warranty if you use track mode on public road. People twin turbo Larborghini Hurracans all the time... I could careless about my warranty. You can tell by the posts that some poeple have never owned a performance cars or been to a road course or never will.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Do we at least agree that none of the safety features or EAP features are required to safely drive a car on the road?
astrowunder
Member
That’s one thing everyone agrees on. Nobody cares avoid about the warranty of “your” car.
What people do care about is:
1.) Killing someone from “track driving” on public roads.
2.) Setting back autonomous driving. It’s a Tesla, owners won’t read page 60 of the owners manual, let alone media.
3.) Not having “nice things” due to some people’s disregards for the tools given to them.
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Yeah I guess FCW and AEB is not really needed when everyone in performance Tesla’s drive no faster than 25MPH and any collisions are just fender benders.
Comeon, is that a serious question?
