The camera blocked warning is normal, the car is being conservative and assumes that if it can't "see" anything interesting the camera may be broken or blocked (better than assuming its all working fine!). You might want to try recalibrating your cameras (tbh, its unlikely to work but its harmless to try and can work in some cases). Otherwise you are going to have to wait for FSD to get finished, which has much more sophisticated NNs and isnt freaked out nearly so easily (and no, you wont have to buy FSD to get that benefit, since TACC will be using the same stack).
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Phantom Braking Needs to be Reported and Fixed
- Thread starter Sacramento
- Start date
Brian C M3D
Member
This was the thread I was looking for, and reading everything, I see we are not alone! TACC is currently dangerous and a nightmare to use. Day or night, it is afraid of everything, braking, squawking, trying to steer - this is happing every mile, not just once in an hour, but at times every minute. We really need to dumb-down all of the safety features, except keeping distance and adjusting speed if there is a car ahead. My partner hasn’t turned on FSD for her profile, so AP or TACC is what she has used and both are frustrating. If it is icy now, we just drive manually, which is embarrassing in a Tesla! Cruise control is important in icy mornings, wanting a steady speed. The last thing we want is the car suddenly braking or swerving, as it would in auto steer/AP, but it is doing that in TACC too! All this poorly thought-through safety is going to kill people! I’m not sure how much this is related to killing off the radar, but probably is? They need to fix TACC!!
FSD (we are on 44.30.5) actually works better than AP and TACC, which also confirms complaints above that Tesla seems to have given up on updating those feature and are only working on FSD. Pretty sad. But FSD does allow me to actually drive the flow of traffic now that it doesn’t hold us to +5 mph over speed limit speeds. I could write a lot of FSD comments, but that is for another thread.
Tesla programming team needs to get out of CA and move to northern mountain towns and learn how to code these features in the ice and snow! Build AP on a road covered in snow and ice, with no lines visible - that is the only way we are really going to get to the AI needed to drive without humans!
FSD (we are on 44.30.5) actually works better than AP and TACC, which also confirms complaints above that Tesla seems to have given up on updating those feature and are only working on FSD. Pretty sad. But FSD does allow me to actually drive the flow of traffic now that it doesn’t hold us to +5 mph over speed limit speeds. I could write a lot of FSD comments, but that is for another thread.
Tesla programming team needs to get out of CA and move to northern mountain towns and learn how to code these features in the ice and snow! Build AP on a road covered in snow and ice, with no lines visible - that is the only way we are really going to get to the AI needed to drive without humans!
I’ve tried the camera calibration multiple times with no change. I tried once during the day and once at night. It didn’t seem to make any difference.
I appreciate your frustration with TACC and echo your sentiment for an option to just have the vehicle maintain a set speed.
Cruise Control of any type should not be used on slippery surfaces, be they wet, snowy, icy, or otherwise. Cruise control shouldn't be used on icy mornings at all. Your declaration of "killing people" is obvious hyperbole. The radar is ineffective in most heavy precipitation conditions as the laws of physics prescribe based on the bandwidth available.
You are ultimately the only one that can tell how much your back end is kicking loose, how much traction you have, and how much your tires are contacting pavement in the right lane that is heavily travelled versus that left lane that your state doesn't plow.
AAA: Avoid Cruise Control On Slippery Roads
NBC: WATCH: Why you shouldn’t drive on ice with cruise control
Some Random Reddit: CBS in DC that cites 3 other sources: VERIFY: Is special car driving technology safe to use in snow and icy weather?
I look forward to the day Tesla has an FSD option that works in all conditions. Until then, stay safe and keep your hands and mind on the wheel when it's frosty out.
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roblab
Active Member
Autopilot was designed to be used on four lane roads (two each way), NOT on two lane ones. If you're going to mis-use the car, quit complaining. Or learn to drive it correctly. YOU ARE THE REASON folks want to throw up while riding with you. It's not an awful awful car, but you are likely an awful awful driver.
Interestingly, though, my 3 does not freak out when I drive with AP on while driving on a two lane road. You probably forgot to tell us of the hills and curves on your road (that you're calling a highway). When you crash, I'm sure you'll try to blame the car, but I imagine you won't be able to. And, it will likely be your fault.
Are you kidding me? Cruise control is ****ing dangerous in icy conditions period. Old style or new. Where did you learn to drive? That’s infuriating that you would blame the car. It wouldn’t kill people, the stupid driver allowing cruise control in icy conditions would be killing people. Reality check.
The system shouldn’t even be usable on roads it isn’t designed for, Tesla should put some work into defining an ODD like every other comparable system.
The phantom braking had gotten MUCH better for me in recent FSD betas, then seems to have regressed substantially in 10.9. One step forward, one step back. Strongly agree with folks who’ve asked for a basic cruise control mode - the code literally already exists, as early Model 3s were available without Autopilot. Just give us the option for when we want a chill, drama-free drive.
Tesla should add basic cruise control and then publish stats on the accidents per mile driven compared to Autopilot
ADAS with lane keeping and other more advanced functions are a bit different IMO as are apparent expectations. Cruise control strictly takes over modulating speeD and even that isn’t without risks.
I bet you could go on a drive with a group of veteran Autopilot users and they wouldn’t be able to accurately identify the actual roads and scenarios where Autopilot can and can’t be used according to the manual. Even the guy above said it works fine on his roads but apparently hills are an issue too?
Not defining any of this stuff with a system like Autopilot seems so haphazard
I drive hwy 17 6 days a week on autopilot. 55 mph through windy mountain hills. It’s great. It slows down when needed and speeds up on straight aways. Anyone saying it doesn’t do hills or windy roads well is just plain full of *sugar*.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Genius. If I was head of the NHTSA this is what I would force Tesla to do. haha.
I'd also be curious what TACC vs. Autosteer+TACC stats are...
Drove from Dallas to Washington DC over two days this weekend. I have FSD beta and used NOA/FSD the entire way. I drove interstates virtually the whole way, so it's primarily NOA. I had no issues with phantom braking. Maybe two very minor slight slowdowns that did not even need supplementary acceleration.
I drove from sunrise to sunset, so had a full range of sun angles. Mostly sunny skies. I was very pleasantly surprised. This was far improved over my experience on the same route in October where I experienced many cases of full on phantom braking accompanied by mystery beeping.
I drove from sunrise to sunset, so had a full range of sun angles. Mostly sunny skies. I was very pleasantly surprised. This was far improved over my experience on the same route in October where I experienced many cases of full on phantom braking accompanied by mystery beeping.
I’ve realized something since recieving my MYP that I wish most people understood.
People that have no issues (or too little of ones to talk about), that love their car, and enjoy all its features, don’t go online to say it. They just live their Tesla loving life lol. Only people with complaints are vocal, therefor, everyone thinks teslas have ALL these problems.
That vast majority of Tesla owners are happy, and might have some odd braking and stuff occasionally. Or a system issue, which they schedule an appointment for, knowing and understanding they might have to wait a bit for a service appointment or parts.
Life goes on. We drive phenomenal robots. And most of the time, Tesla makes good on their warranty’s and problems in time. Even after warranties are done a lot of the time!
People need to go with the flow.
Brian C M3D
Member
Yeah, I shouldn't have used the "icy" word in that context, as there are various meanings to "icy". Living in the intermountain west, every morning can be spectrum of icy, from just some frost on the road (common), to dry snow, to an actual ice rink (which of course we wouldn't use cc!) However, on flat, straight roads with moderate traction, a steady speed provided by cruise control, is preferable to a human foot that ebbs and flows on an accelerator. Safety was the major theme here!
The whole POINT of posting was about a TACC system that worked FINE from 2018 - 2021, but now, through these updates of the last few months, it annoys us so much that we are tending to not use these features (that we paid for), and instead drive manually as humans, which as Elon says, are not as good of drivers as AP. If these systems are so safe, but don't work in the weather conditions that actually pose unsafe conditions, then I'm not really sure these statistics they tout are valid?
Are the robotaxis really going to work in icy conditions at all, because Elon keeps thinking that FSD is coming soon? And before those who can't stand to hear anything bad about Tesla, please know that there isn't another car maker I would consider buying.
linux-works
Active Member
the solution is to buy 'caution! student driver!!' stickers.
I hate that idea, but I see value in it. on a tesla, the car is always in student driver mode if there's any automation going.
btw, I just had my first really bad PB event today. I used to say that living in the bay area meant that the NN was so well trained. well, bit me just today. never had it slam on the brakes like that before. took me several seconds to get over the loss of control while it does that crap.
I am now pretty sure: auto-braking is something that just DOES NOT WORK well enough to be deployed. do you like having the car not hit something in front? sure. but I also hate being hit from behind! doh!
this tech does not work. its been years and its made zero progress for all practical purposes. a smart ceo could admit this is a good ASSIST tech but it will never be ready to drive humans at level 3 or 4 or 5. not any current tesla with its current hw/fw/sensor array.
I would prefer to have NO auto braking. none. just none at all. let me slam into crap in front of me. but please, dont try to THINK for me. the car is still too stupid and I'm offended that it think's it knows better.
it can stay in lanes, most of the time. it does that well if you keep the speed low enough and the radius is shallow enough.
but so much of the automation is crap. and they'd had years and spent much of it boasting about how they are the greatest, etc.
I'm so glad I decided to try this out. very useful experience. but happy to let it go when there is another choice. and one that is not so eager to rear-end me with 'automation'.
**** If you could specify what you are driving, when you got it and if you know if it has radar or not would be helpful in this thread. ****
Pre-rant disclaimer. The money savings alone going to and from work make me put up with more than I would otherwise. If I could find something about the same price, with similar performance, at least the range of the M3LR and that was from another established automaker I would consider jumping ship. That sentiment comes from nothing other than the fact that the car doesn't actually have a functioning cruise control.
I can't speak to FSD as I didn't buy it. However I put 900km (560 miles) per week, everything from urban to county to highway and use Autopilot a lot.
I'm driving a 2022 M3LR that was delivered December 21, 2021.
Just so there is no misunderstanding.
- Highway - 3-4 lanes each way, divided with barrier, flow of traffic is usually about 120km/hr
- County - 2 lanes each way, no division other than a painted line, flow of traffic is usually about 90km/hr to 100km/hr, pretty much flat with some curves
- I am referring to TACC and not auto-pilot, though the behaviour is the same.
- I only use it on clear roads
I've had a few phantom braking instances on the highway, but I think it is actually been better because I am usually driving at night with no shadows this time of year, we'll see what happens when we get closer to the summer and the sun is breaking the horizon at 6:30 AM.
In the county TACC is absolutely useless during the day and worse at night. I get phantom braking all the time. This happens when it's on flat level ground with no curves. I haven't made it though a drive to/from work with out it engaging at least a few times in the county.
- Car coming towards me with it's lights on, car freaks out
- Bus/Truck coming towards me with.....oh no..... a shadow, car freaks out
I'm not talking about the car slowing but rather it's jamming the brakes on, after yesterday's drive with my wife, I am now also in the no TACC while she's in the car club.
I have a friend with an older M3 with radar and has zero issues on the same county roads, he was surprised when I mentioned it.
My firm belief is that Tesla screwed up by removing the radar pod. (I still think it was a cost saving measure, remove a part don't change the price of the car).
I drove a 2016 VW Golf R for 5 years prior to buying my M3, it had adaptive cruise control which is very similar to Tesla's TACC. The only time I had the car engage the brakes was when I nearly rear ended some one, as it should've.
It baffles me that there has been no response from Tesla on this issue, there is no way that it is unique to a few cars. Unfortunately it'll take a pile up that happens because of a phantom braking incident for them to take notice.
You're gonna need to cite that for me, what do you mean not designed for two lane highways. My old Golf and my wife's Atlas both have adaptive cruise, again with a radar pod and drive just fine on two lane highways.
I also suspect that judging from your signature you drive an older M3 with radar. This furthers my belief that not having it is the source of the problems we are experiencing.
Pre-rant disclaimer. The money savings alone going to and from work make me put up with more than I would otherwise. If I could find something about the same price, with similar performance, at least the range of the M3LR and that was from another established automaker I would consider jumping ship. That sentiment comes from nothing other than the fact that the car doesn't actually have a functioning cruise control.
I can't speak to FSD as I didn't buy it. However I put 900km (560 miles) per week, everything from urban to county to highway and use Autopilot a lot.
I'm driving a 2022 M3LR that was delivered December 21, 2021.
Just so there is no misunderstanding.
- Highway - 3-4 lanes each way, divided with barrier, flow of traffic is usually about 120km/hr
- County - 2 lanes each way, no division other than a painted line, flow of traffic is usually about 90km/hr to 100km/hr, pretty much flat with some curves
- I am referring to TACC and not auto-pilot, though the behaviour is the same.
- I only use it on clear roads
I've had a few phantom braking instances on the highway, but I think it is actually been better because I am usually driving at night with no shadows this time of year, we'll see what happens when we get closer to the summer and the sun is breaking the horizon at 6:30 AM.
In the county TACC is absolutely useless during the day and worse at night. I get phantom braking all the time. This happens when it's on flat level ground with no curves. I haven't made it though a drive to/from work with out it engaging at least a few times in the county.
- Car coming towards me with it's lights on, car freaks out
- Bus/Truck coming towards me with.....oh no..... a shadow, car freaks out
I'm not talking about the car slowing but rather it's jamming the brakes on, after yesterday's drive with my wife, I am now also in the no TACC while she's in the car club.
I have a friend with an older M3 with radar and has zero issues on the same county roads, he was surprised when I mentioned it.
My firm belief is that Tesla screwed up by removing the radar pod. (I still think it was a cost saving measure, remove a part don't change the price of the car).
I drove a 2016 VW Golf R for 5 years prior to buying my M3, it had adaptive cruise control which is very similar to Tesla's TACC. The only time I had the car engage the brakes was when I nearly rear ended some one, as it should've.
It baffles me that there has been no response from Tesla on this issue, there is no way that it is unique to a few cars. Unfortunately it'll take a pile up that happens because of a phantom braking incident for them to take notice.
You're gonna need to cite that for me, what do you mean not designed for two lane highways. My old Golf and my wife's Atlas both have adaptive cruise, again with a radar pod and drive just fine on two lane highways.
I also suspect that judging from your signature you drive an older M3 with radar. This furthers my belief that not having it is the source of the problems we are experiencing.
Just gonna drop this here.
www.cnn.com
Tesla owners complain about 'phantom braking.' Federal safety regulator considers a probe
Federal safety regulators are mulling a probe after Tesla owners complained that their cars were stopping for no reason.
It's worth noting that I also have an older M3 with radar, but since I have FSD beta the car is no longer using it, so I've had the chance to see the exact same car with/without radar. And, I've seen almost no phantom braking with OR without radar .. certainly never the "slam on the brakes" others have reported. So it's not as simple as radar vs non-radar.
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