Phantom braking without self-driving features?

[GoVols!]

I mean if I go on a long trip, say 400-500 miles I usually encounter phantom braking once or twice. It’s not nearly as frequent or treacherous as the overly dramatic internet would make it sound. It’s not a full brake slam experience… it’s more of an unexpected slow down which is easily overridden with a tap to the accelerator. But if you have passengers they will wonder why you slowed down. It’s super overhyped on social media pages.

Internet forums are such a small outlier and based on PB, I would probably just keep my foot resting on the accelerator just in case the PB happens.

 

[exxxviii]

the AP steering option will only let you set the speed to 5 over the current speed limit and I like to go 6-7 over the limit but can't with Auto Steer turned on. (a limition of AP no one tells you about)

My Model Y will let me use Autosteer up to 85 MPH, regardless of speed limit. I have my default TACC speed set to 7 MPH over speed limit, and it has always allows me to use Autosteer.

 

[SageBrush]

Internet forums are such a small outlier and based on PB, I would probably just keep my foot resting on the accelerator just in case the PB happens.

A big part of why I use cruise control is to take my foot off the go pedal.

 

[AmpManMYP]

My Model Y will let me use Autosteer up to 85 MPH, regardless of speed limit. I have my default TACC speed set to 7 MPH over speed limit, and it has always allows me to use Autosteer.

IIRC that's how it works on limited access/4+ lane highways. On two lane/secondary roads, you're limited to a max of 5mph over the speed limit when using Autosteer, but not limited when using TACC (or maybe a considerably higher limit? I've never tried more than 10mph over on two lane roads) .

 

[exxxviii]

IIRC that's how it works on limited access/4+ lane highways. On two lane/secondary roads, you're limited to a max of 5mph over the speed limit when using Autosteer, but not limited when using TACC (or maybe a considerably higher limit? I've never tried more than 10mph over on two lane roads) .

Sure enough. I have not encountered it because I rarely use Autosteer on the kinds of roads that cause restricted speed. It has let me drive >5 MPH over on my nearby unlimited access roads, but I have not used it as much on tighter and slower roads.

if you choose to use Autosteer on residential roads, a road without a center divider, or a road where access is not limited, Autosteer may limit the maximum allowed cruising speed and the touchscreen displays a message indicating that speed is restricted. The restricted speed will be the speed limit of the road plus 5 mph (10 km/h).

 

[VoltWagon]

I've driven only 2000 miles so far but never had phantom braking when not in autopilot (comes as standard on all Teslas). When in autopilot it is quite cautious so it will brake unnecessarily sometimes, but since you should be paying attention when using it, you can quickly disable it with a flick up of the stalk or pressing on the accelerator. Luckily my Tesla has never slammed on the bakes yet where I have not had time to react, it has always applied the brakes smoothly. Once it tried to swerve to avoid something that was not there that could have resulted in me hitting a kerb but since I was holding the steering wheel it was no problem.

Thanks - please keep me posted if you notice any more severe behavior, like some stories I've heard of the cruise speed suddenly changing from 120 km/h to 40 km/h. My ID.4 has "adaptive cruise control" (like TACC, as I understand it), but it normally acts by slowing the car with the motors, using the brakes only if there is truly imminent danger of collision. Very smooth in slow-and-go traffic.

ID.4 also has "lane assist" that will try to gently steer back into the lane if I drift. This happens sometimes it shouldn't, such as when two lanes merge and the road texture changes. A little disconcerting, but it doesn't feel like a potential danger.

I'm hoping the base Model Y's AP will be equivalent to the ID.4's ACC + lane assist.

Overall, I like the ID.4, but am driven to abandoning it because of its shorter range, slower charging speed, very sparse charging network, and VW's terrible mishandling of the current mass recall of the 2021 model (a severe danger of sudden power loss). Apparently it's just a software fix, but VW may take months to fix it.

 

[exxxviii]

I'm hoping the base Model Y's AP will be equivalent to the ID.4's ACC + lane assist.

You will probably find that the Model Y's basic Autopilot is at least the equal and probably superior to the VW ID.4.

Tesla's lane centering ("Autosteer") is excellent in just about any situation (even when you probably shouldn't be using it). It is very smooth and no ping-ponging. The only weakness to Tesla's lane centering is its manual disengagement and re-engagement when changing lanes. Many others just suspend lane centering when you hit your blinker and then reengage when you complete the lane change. Tesla's TACC is also fantastic and will take you to a stop and then restart no matter how long you sit. Others typically require some driver engagement to resume after a short stop.

 

[andaconda]

I have found that phantom, braking usually occurs on the same areas of the highway that I frequently travel. A couple of the places that I travel I remember and take it out of AP. Other places I forget and of course I get major braking . I will try the automatic emergency breaking shut off and see if that helps.

 

[HonchoNI]

Thanks - please keep me posted if you notice any more severe behavior, like some stories I've heard of the cruise speed suddenly changing from 120 km/h to 40 km/h. My ID.4 has "adaptive cruise control" (like TACC, as I understand it), but it normally acts by slowing the car with the motors, using the brakes only if there is truly imminent danger of collision. Very smooth in slow-and-go traffic.

ID.4 also has "lane assist" that will try to gently steer back into the lane if I drift. This happens sometimes it shouldn't, such as when two lanes merge and the road texture changes. A little disconcerting, but it doesn't feel like a potential danger.

I'm hoping the base Model Y's AP will be equivalent to the ID.4's ACC + lane assist.

Overall, I like the ID.4, but am driven to abandoning it because of its shorter range, slower charging speed, very sparse charging network, and VW's terrible mishandling of the current mass recall of the 2021 model (a severe danger of sudden power loss). Apparently it's just a software fix, but VW may take months to fix it.

The tesla has lane departure warning which according to your description of how it works sounds like it will feel similar to you ID.4's. Basic Autopilot fully steers the car within lane up to a certain cornering sharpness (not very sharp) but will not avoid things like parked cars.

 

[Sambub]

I’ve had 3-4 incidents of phantom braking in 2500 miles in 23’ YP. In each instance, car will suddenly slow down, no apparent reason, nothing in front, then speed back up. In each case, car has slowed suddenly, but has never outright stopped. Like it sees something suddenly, but quickly recorrects. In each case, I was using regular cruise or autopilot. The events are disconcerting, but not terrible. I think each event was caused by angle of sun/reflection of some sort. Despite these instances, we have not stopped using autopilot. But we do try to be a bit more careful.

I love the car nonetheless. Just did a 500 mile trip, MSP to Fargo, which went really well aside from one phantom incident. The cars navigation computer, trip planner, along with supercharger network made trip carefree. Car was awesome to travel with: very comfortable and easy to use. Can’t wait to get 2nd Tesla and wouldn’t even consider VW or BMW at this point.

 

[Sambub]

I should also tell you that my wife credits the Tesla safety systems for saving her bacon when a pickup suddenly cut in front of her and would have collided with her, but the Tesla immediately slowed, also stopped to avoid the collision. She was very impressed and thankful of the car..

 

[GoVols!]

I should also tell you that my wife credits the Tesla safety systems for saving her bacon when a pickup suddenly cut in front of her and would have collided with her, but the Tesla immediately slowed, also stopped to avoid the collision. She was very impressed and thankful of the car..

Good to know. This was one of the questions I never really got a clear answer on and that’s the true effectiveness of the AEB system. Does the vehicle have to be I. Cruiser control “AP” in order for AEB to work? My daughters VW Tiguan will stop in emergency situations, such as being cutoff or approaching a stopped vehicle without being in cruise control. It works really well every time.

 

[Sambub]

The AEB system is always active and errors of the side of being cautious in my experience, which I don’t mind.

In my wife’s incident described above, she did not have the car in cruise/AP.

 

[SpencerR]

I’ve never had a phantom braking event. I use autopilot all the time because it’s fun. Internet forums have a negative selection bias. Phantom braking is possible, but I don’t think anyone here has an accurate sense of probability.

I commute from the California coast to the California valley/desert 2x a week. Holy mother of God, when I get into the valley and there are mirages on the road horizon, my 2023 MYLR and 2022 M3LR both will decelerate/brake so hard from 70 MPH autopilot that my stomach feels like it is going to come out of my eyes. It sucks, because the road is so straight and theoretically great for autopilot. I would love to be able to rest my right leg/bend my knee a bit, but because of how often the cars will phantom brake (thinking the mirage is a stalled 18-wheeler), I need to have my foot hovering over the accelerator at all times to override the car's poor decision making. I am terrified as soon as anyone gets close to the rear of the car, not knowing when the car will decide to go from 70mph to 0 and send me (and the unsuspecting others) to the hospital with a hefty insurance claim/legal battle.

Edit: happened just yesterday again. Autopilot had been running great for 20 minutes so I bent my right leg up to get some flexibility in my knee and just relax a bit. Within 2 minutes, and with no other cars in a mile either direction, the car just started HARD decelerating and by the time the forces/shock subsided enough for me to get my foot back on the accelerator, the car was down to 40mph on the freeway. Thank God there was no one behind me either tailgating or getting ready to pass me because it would have been a rear end collision for sure.

 

[Goobers]

I've experienced phantom braking at least twice now, in the week and half I've had my MYP. They were both at the same place with cruise control where it slowed down.

At first, I thought it might be related to the construction that cut up and refilled the road. But during the second time, I realized, there's a sign indicating traffic signal ahead. The sign itself is a picture of the traffic signal. So, I'm guessing the AP saw that and got confused.

What makes it really annoying is... it didn't brake to a stop for the ACTUAL red light. I had to hit the brakes.

 

[SpencerR]

I've experienced phantom braking at least twice now, in the week and half I've had my MYP. They were both at the same place with cruise control where it slowed down.

At first, I thought it might be related to the construction that cut up and refilled the road. But during the second time, I realized, there's a sign indicating traffic signal ahead. The sign itself is a picture of the traffic signal. So, I'm guessing the AP saw that and got confused.

What makes it really annoying is... it didn't brake to a stop for the ACTUAL red light. I had to hit the brakes.

AP does not respond to traffic signals. That would be FSD. AP is just adaptive cruise control with lane keeping.

 

[zoomer0056]

AP does not respond to traffic signals. That would be FSD. AP is just adaptive cruise control with lane keeping.

Yup, too many people getting behind the wheel of an car with ADAS features without knowing how to use them. This is why when I see another Tesla I give them plenty of room.

 

[SpencerR]

Yup, too many people getting behind the wheel of an car with ADAS features without knowing how to use them. This is why when I see another Tesla I give them plenty of room.

Autopilot, ahh yes, just like in the movies about airplanes. Now that I have engaged it, I will climb in the backseat for a quick 15 minute power nap

 

[TarmacSurfer]

Autopilot, ahh yes, just like in the movies about airplanes. Now that I have engaged it, I will climb in the backseat for a quick 15 minute power nap

I can’t wait for that day!

Unfortunately we’re not there yet - and probably a good 15-20 years away.

 

[Goobers]

AP does not respond to traffic signals. That would be FSD. AP is just adaptive cruise control with lane keeping.

Well, since I don’t have USS, then I can only assume it’s relying on the camera. And unless you’re claiming the road somehow made a shadow of a car or other obstacle ahead, I don’t know what else to say other than I’m more inclined to think the software is bugged.

Even if FSD itself is a bunch of ”advance” options, it doesn’t necessarily mean parts of its code isn’t taking effect elsewhere.

That said, I’ve said my piece. I had similar issues with my traded-in Honda HR-V and that had radar. So I’ll just get used to it and that’s all.