Planning to only use 110 outlet

[darth_vad3r]

Hi everyone! New owner here. Picked up Model 3 on 6/8 and plan to only use my existing 110 outlet in my garage to charge my car. Since I have a total commute of 40 miles 4 days a week I figure I can get about 50 charging miles each night. If I decide to take a long trip there are a number of local Superchargers available get up to 100% before I leave. My question: will I be doing any “damage” to my car’s battery by trickling in a charge for long hours at a low rate? Thanks.

5 nights of charging at 50-60mi/nt is 250-300mi of range added Sun night to Friday morning (assuming you work M-Th).
Even in winter you are totally fine. Your 40mi commute could use 60mi in summer if you drive fast and use lots of AC, in winter it will use more but I still think you are fine if you start Sunday night at a decent charge, like if you are at 20% stop at a supercharger Sunday evening for 15 minutes and get back up to 50%, then go home and plug in.

Some nights you may charge more than 12 hours and get more miles added too.

 

[voucher2002]

Thanks for all your responses. I'm going to stay with the 110 for now but plan to get a 14-50 outlet just as soon as i can find a reasonable install price.

 

[Bill Foster]

Thanks for all your responses. I'm going to stay with the 110 for now but plan to get a 14-50 outlet just as soon as i can find a reasonable install price.

Not sure your house setup, I wired my 14-50 myself. Breaker box was in the garage so it was really easy. I might have 50 bucks in it.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I charge for free at work and only have 110 at home. My commute is 10 miles/each way 4 days/week. If I wasn’t able to charge at work, then I would definitely be upgrading my home charging. 110 is not efficient enough.

How is 110 not efficient enough? You are worried about costs?

I think it would take 800,000 miles to payback $1000 240V install cost that saves you 4% efficiency on $0.15/kWh.

SR+ 50kWh = 240mi: 3,333.33 full charge equivalents = 800,000 miles and 166,667 kWh
167k kWh x $0.15 x 4% = $1,000

20 mi/day x 4 days is easily doable on 110V, and efficiency numbers don’t make sense in terms of costs.

I do 50mi/day no problem and if I couldn’t charge at work I’d charge at home on 110V overnight.

 

[darth_vad3r]

On the comments about a 240volt outlet repaying it's cost thru efficiency gains .
How about the convenience of not having to make sure it is plugged in every time you get home?
Get home from work know it is just an hour or two and then have a social engagement or something do you plug in because you know every minute you are home it needs to be plugged in. My car is typically plugged in overnight but during the day if I am coming and going I don't plug it in between trips. Something especially 3 owners are not thinking about yet is plugging and unplugging does create wear. My UMC1 plug to the car is exhibiting wear, runs warm when charging, warmer at 24amps than the wall connector does at much higher charge rate. Long term I think the having to plug in every time you pull in the driveway will cost you a little extra on that end when the UMC end dies, hopefully not taking the car's port with it.

I think if you need to be plugged in “every minute” you are home then 110V is not sufficient. If you can get by on 10-12 hours per night (and some nights longer probably) then it’s fine. Just plug in at night. Takes 5s.

Tesla tells you to stay plugged in so the port should take a plug and unplug cycle daily.

 

[SigNC]

as long as you are ok hitting superchargers i think you will be fine. I limped along on a 20 amp 120 for a while and it worked but on days i drove much more it was hard to recover. I however do not have a super convenient supercharger. Finally got a 240 50 amp plug in and it's so much easier.

 

[duanra]

I am on 110v with a 40km commue in Montreal, never got close to use a Supercharger.

 

[SSedan]

There are options besides 14-50.

A 14-30 "dryer outlet" is an option and Romex to do it pretty cheap.

I find it odd that so many people have lives so rigidly structured and are still ignoring speed, vampire losses, and weather. A 40mile commute at 75mph uses more energy than at 45mph, 45mph at 70f will actually get a fair bit better than rated range, bit 75mph at 20degrees with some snow a lot worse.

I thought 8pm trips to Walgreens, picking kids up from Scouts, forgot an ingredient for dinner are all normal parts of life.

 

[darth_vad3r]

There are options besides 14-50.

A 14-30 "dryer outlet" is an option and Romex to do it pretty cheap.

I find it odd that so many people have lives so rigidly structured and are still ignoring speed, vampire losses, and weather. A 40mile commute at 75mph uses more energy than at 45mph, 45mph at 70f will actually get a fair bit better than rated range, bit 75mph at 20degrees with some snow a lot worse.

I thought 8pm trips to Walgreens, picking kids up from Scouts, forgot an ingredient for dinner are all normal parts of life.

Sure, which is why I said OP's 40mi commute could use 60mi of range in the summer and more in the winter ... but he's still fine replacing 4 days of that driving with 5 overnight charges. 12 hours replaces 60mi x 4, the 5th day replaces extra winter use.

If he starts the 4-day work week at 90%, he'll end the morning after the work week at 90% ... that's a massive buffer for extra trips to Walgreens and forgetting ingredients and ...

 

[Kognos]

30% potential energy lost in 110v plug vs a 10% loss in a 14-50. That's one factor over time. But honestly, I've only had my Tesla for a few days now with a 110v and I dislike the feeling of needing to plug in every single time I get home in order to catch up, which is basically what you need to do with that style of plug, which puts you in a dangerous situation. I've got a 14-50 already installed, but am waiting on the adapter -- silly Tesla doesn't include it anymore by default.

In my mind, if you can't charge up overnight to full, then you could run out during the next day. As you say, superchargers are an option but an inconvenient and potentially costly one for a daily workflow. I too have superchargers reasonably available but I just don't want to be inconvenienced. I absolutely adore the concept for traveling, hate it for practical consumption. Home charging costs less, is incredibly convenient, and always better.

So I would strongly encourage anyone - and this wouldn't be unique to Tesla - to always consider a home charging solution that potentially gets you to full overnight, no matter how low of charge. You could potentially avoid having to plug in every day depending on how confident you are in the next day's activities, and it's all heavy peace of mind.

 

[rdskill]

Hi everyone! New owner here. Picked up Model 3 on 6/8 and plan to only use my existing 110 outlet in my garage to charge my car. Since I have a total commute of 40 miles 4 days a week I figure I can get about 50 charging miles each night. If I decide to take a long trip there are a number of local Superchargers available get up to 100% before I leave. My question: will I be doing any “damage” to my car’s battery by trickling in a charge for long hours at a low rate? Thanks.

if your wiring is rated for it, maybe you could look into bumping your 110v/15 amp (5-15) to 110v/20 amp (5-20) and buy the 5-20 adapter for your mobile charger for $35.

http://www.stjosephmusicfoundation.org/documents/Nema.pdf

This would charge at 16 amps (2kw) instead of 12 amps (1kw). At 12 amps you charge at 67% (losing 33%). At 16 amps you charge at 76%. Charging at 16 amp (5-20): 8h 13m added 49 miles. Battery went from 48% to 68%.

The major takeaway is that 110v low amp is very inefficient. 25-33% turning into heat. I charge at work and bought the 5-20 adapter to get the 16A charging rate.

Seems like you would be a lot better off going to a NEMA 14-30 up to 14-50 (30 amp & 50 amp). When I move into a home this is what I will look into doing. My commute is 40 miles round trip. The 30 amp would be fine. Set it to charge during the lowest rates of the day.

Batteries die faster from overcharging (100%), which is what kills our cell phone batteries as well. So 90 pre trip or 80% for daily driving will prolong your battery.

Enjoy

 

[darth_vad3r]

30% potential energy lost in 110v plug vs a 10% loss in a 14-50

Is there some data points on this? I'm not seeing anywhere near that drop in efficiency comparing home charge (110V) to work charge (240V).

 

[thaian207]

just like everyone else --> 14-50 is the best way to go, will save you money in the long run. Faster and more efficient; if you're handy with a newer house, DIY is easy and under $50. 120v is a temp solution or if that's your only option.

 

[Kognos]

Is there some data points on this? I'm not seeing anywhere near that drop in efficiency comparing home charge (110V) to work charge (240V).

Absolutely, here are a few:
NEMA 5-15 vs 14-50 Efficiency
Measuring EV charging efficiency - Tesla Living

The trick is really in measuring the output from the wall vs what is provided to the actual Tesla car battery. For example, just as a way of comparison, I don't believe we're charged for any inefficiencies in Supercharger use, only what is actually consumed by the battery or the car itself while it is plugged in. But at home, if you only had the car plugged in and nothing else consuming power, you'd be able to measure the output from the plug to the input on the car and measure the actual difference. Some is lost as heat, some in other ways far too technical that I don't understand, but this is the difference that we should be cognizant of because it does effect the bottom line cost of electricity. The more efficient the plug is, the less we have to pay for the end result.

I can't find the reference and I'd love to have it handy if someone does, but a good electrician would be able to measure the actual pull from the plug and compare it to what was "accepted" by the car, and that's where you see the disparity. I will totally concede (as you can see from these two links) that the reported efficiency of a 5-15 plug is greater than the 14-50 but the actual rate is argued. Still, anything worse than 80% is pretty bad in my opinion, and we should try to get 90% or better if possible with home networks to really see benefit - after all, the car is going to be among the greater power-pullers on your home grid.

Granted for some this is not enough $$ to even be worth talking about but to others it could be a factor. When it comes to environmental concerns I think every little bit counts though - we could be consuming power from a centralized source that might be reliant on non-eco foundations, which is amongst our factors for getting a Tesla, no?

 

[Dmagyar]

My wife had no issues charging her 3 in the winter at 110v - we're in NJ so slightly colder than MD.

Got to jump in here, in the majority of the US, we use 120/240 volt residential distribution, not 110 volts...just sayin.

 

[F14Scott]

It is cheap and easy to convert your 120V outlet to 240V by changing the breaker and the wall outlet, assuming the outlet is a single. At 15 or 20 amps (determined by the strung wire) and 240V, you can charge to full overnight from just about any SOC. You'll need a new adapter for your UMC.

Part of the fun of owning a Tesla is knowing that every morning, you wake up with a full tank.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Absolutely, here are a few:
NEMA 5-15 vs 14-50 Efficiency
Measuring EV charging efficiency - Tesla Living

The trick is really in measuring the output from the wall vs what is provided to the actual Tesla car battery. For example, just as a way of comparison, I don't believe we're charged for any inefficiencies in Supercharger use, only what is actually consumed by the battery or the car itself while it is plugged in. But at home, if you only had the car plugged in and nothing else consuming power, you'd be able to measure the output from the plug to the input on the car and measure the actual difference. Some is lost as heat, some in other ways far too technical that I don't understand, but this is the difference that we should be cognizant of because it does effect the bottom line cost of electricity. The more efficient the plug is, the less we have to pay for the end result.

I can't find the reference and I'd love to have it handy if someone does, but a good electrician would be able to measure the actual pull from the plug and compare it to what was "accepted" by the car, and that's where you see the disparity. I will totally concede (as you can see from these two links) that the reported efficiency of a 5-15 plug is greater than the 14-50 but the actual rate is argued. Still, anything worse than 80% is pretty bad in my opinion, and we should try to get 90% or better if possible with home networks to really see benefit - after all, the car is going to be among the greater power-pullers on your home grid.

Granted for some this is not enough $$ to even be worth talking about but to others it could be a factor. When it comes to environmental concerns I think every little bit counts though - we could be consuming power from a centralized source that might be reliant on non-eco foundations, which is amongst our factors for getting a Tesla, no?

Thanks, I'm not measuring how much the car 'uses' like that 2nd link is talking about, I'm basing it off of the car's charge screen showing me the power (and more accurately, the amps and volts) and telling me how many km/hr it is adding.

From this I can see that 7-8km/hr at 12A with 112-114V. Let's call that 7.5km/hr at 113V x 12A = 1.356kW.
At work I can see best case 42km/hr added at 30A with 205V (6.15kW), worst case 37km/hr added at 30A with 188V (5.64kW).

6.15kW / 42km/hr = 146 Wh/km
5.64kW / 37km/hr = 152 Wh/km
1.356Kw / 7.5km/hr = 181 Wh/km

If I use ~140 Wh/km as the rated consumption (where the 'rated' line is on the energy app in the car), those numbers give me 96%, 92%, and 77% efficiency.

So if I only charged at home instead of at best-case at work, I would be wasting 35Wh/km. After 200,000km that's 7000 kWh wasted.

For me at $0.10/kWh that's $700 over 10 years of 20k/yr driving ... ok, so it's not insignificant, but ... it's not really massive, especially if the install would cost me $500-1000. Plus, besides all this (for me) I charge at work mostly ... but ya, for someone in OP's position, if they drive enough, the cost could eventually be recouped. It depends on electricity costs and how much you drive.

BTW, my numbers above match the 2nd post in your first link. Thanks again:

It's been a while but the last study I read puts 120v charging around 75% efficiency, while high power 240v is around 93-97%. This was for all EVs, and the tesla runs a lot of systems during charging so there is power going to car constantly that isn't being being put in the battery. Because of this, the longer it takes to charge the more power that goes to systems other than the battery.

Check to see what it takes to get a 14-50 installed. I didn't need any permits so it was less than $50 to do it myself.

 

[darth_vad3r]

It is cheap and easy to convert your 120V outlet to 240V by changing the breaker and the wall outlet, assuming the outlet is a single. At 15 or 20 amps (determined by the strung wire) and 240V, you can charge to full overnight from just about any SOC. You'll need a new adapter for your UMC.

Part of the fun of owning a Tesla is knowing that every morning, you wake up with a full tank.

To be clear, are you saying you can take a 2x 5-15 wiring run and re-use the wires for a single 14-50?
[EDIT: I'm not an electrician, but ... the 5-15 outlet just has 3 wires, and the 14-50 has 4 ... so ... are you just not going to wire in the neutral because the Tesla doesn't use it in this scheme? ... this is probably not at all to code ]

That's assuming the wire was over-spec to start with though. And then you have to always crank down the amps on your car to not blow the breaker because the NEMA 14-50 adapter will say it can do 50A (40A continuous) and if you try that the circuit will blow (or a fire will start).

 

[ralph142]

To be clear, are you saying you can take a 2x 5-15 wiring run and re-use the wires for a single 14-50?
[EDIT: I'm not an electrician, but ... the 5-15 outlet just has 3 wires, and the 14-50 has 4 ... so ... are you just not going to wire in the neutral because the Tesla doesn't use it in this scheme? ... this is probably not at all to code ]

That's assuming the wire was over-spec to start with though. And then you have to always crank down the amps on your car to not blow the breaker because the NEMA 14-50 adapter will say it can do 50A (40A continuous) and if you try that the circuit will blow (or a fire will start).

I think he’s talking about a 240 volt 20 amp circuit, not a 14-50 socket but a 6-20 iirc.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I think he’s talking about a 240 volt 20 amp circuit, not a 14-50 socket but a 6-20 iirc.

Ah yes, there you go. NEMA 6-15 or 6-20 ... same # of wires. Good stuff. I don't know if wires rated for 120V 15A are the same as those for 240V 15A though? If so, you can do what was suggested, change the outlet, leave the wiring, and change the breaker and the hookup at the breaker side and upgrade a 5-15 to a 6-15 and double your fun!


Tesla NEMA 6-15 adapter: Gen 2 NEMA Adapters