Poll: Model 3 Dissuasion?

[T34ME]

However, there's another alternative: could it be equal or same as

Or even "superior" depending on one's needs.

 

[T34ME]

The more interesting question is, would a new Model 3 be superior to a "version 1" Model S ?

The answer is "yes." And the version 5 of the TM3 will be superior to the version 1 TM3. I will have a decision to make at that time, - flip my version 1 and upgrade to the version 5 (can we compare to the IPhone?) or live happily ever after with the compromises of the version 1.

 

[flamingoezz]

i dont get who thought model 3 would be better than model S at half the price..I won't cancel because M3 is not better than Model S. I might cancel if Model 3 isn't as good as I expect it to be.

 

[Garlan Garner]

i dont get who thought model 3 would be better than model S at half the price..I won't cancel because M3 is not better than Model S. I might cancel if Model 3 isn't as good as I expect it to be.

It all depends on what you want.

If you want a smaller car than a bigger car.....the Model 3 is better for you.
If you want a cheaper car rather than an expensive car.....the Model 3 is better for you.

If you don't car about the options that "Elon" said makes the Model S better....then maybe the model 3 is better for you.


The same argument has been made about the BMW M3 vs BMW 7 series. It depends on what you want/like.

The word "better" can only be defined by the person doing the comparison.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I have always been a person that is more interested in what I want than what I like.

What does that mean?

I would like a model S.
However what I want is dual motor, Ludicrous, light color interior, AP w/summon, all glass roof, Tesla product that I can afford.

So where can I get everything I want? Model 3.

Sorry Elon.

 

[Skotty]

The Model 3 is incredibly superior to the Model S in one particular aspect. Value. The Model 3 will be almost as good as a Model S for half the cost. And that was the whole point of Model 3 to begin with. So far, Model 3 is on track to deliver on it's intended promise.

If you are into computer graphics, you can kind of relate Tesla models to video card models. The Model S is the expensive high end model with top performance and high price (like a GeForce GTX 1080). The Model 3 is the mid-range model. The performance is still great, but the price is much lower (like a GeForce GTX 1060). Overall, if you buy the 3 (or a GTX 1060), you are maximizing bang for your buck, and getting a good value.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The Model 3 is incredibly superior to the Model S in one particular aspect. Value. The Model 3 will be almost as good as a Model S for half the cost. And that was the whole point of Model 3 to begin with. So far, Model 3 is on track to deliver on it's intended promise.

I agree. I think.

I believe that we will get more for our money with the Model 3 because for one thing.....the cost of the development of the model 3 isn't built into the model 3's price as it ( is?) ( was?) (still is?) with the Model S.

 

[Dynastar]

One thing the S/X will have going for them is availability. Especially as AP 2 becomes more capable and the public becomes more aware a new buyer will have a choice: put down a reservation and wait a year or more for a 3, buy a used 3 at what I assume will be a mark-up, or buy an S/X. For some the S/X won't be a possibility because of price, but for others it will.

 

[Big-T]

It's funny to keep hearing "How can you expect a better car for 35k than a 70k car LOL !!" from people.

How can I expect it? By looking at the market leader.

If you check out BMW the supposed rival to the model 3, I've never seen them anti-sell their Series 3 cars. In fact they will sell you a Series 3 optioned with just about any flavor that you want and many of these variants will be "better" in certain respects than a basic 7 series.

You want a faster 0-60 time than a 7 series, no problem
You want better handling than a 7 series, no problem
You want a bigger engine than a 7 series, no problem
You want certain tech like Launch Control that's missing from the 7 series, no problem

I can go on and on for the feature list. BMW isn't shy about putting whatever they can into the 3 series and selling the HELL out of it. It's the reason they're the market leader in the midsize luxury segment. Is it "better" than a 7 series at a cheaper price? Well depending on what you're looking for, YES.

With their statements so far Tesla on the other hand seems to be intentionally crippling the Model 3, a car they want to sell at 10x or more volume to the S/X...and you know what, they can get away with it FOR NOW, because they have a pre-order backlog going for a couple years.

But I'm saying it right here and now, if they want to reach that goal actually selling 500,000 cars by 2018 / 1,000,000 per year by 2020 they are going to have to convince a whole lot of ICE customers to switch over. Intentionally stripping a car bare, now allowing customers to option it out, and setting it up as inferior in every way to the public will not get them there.

 

[Skotty]

It's funny to keep hearing "How can you expect a better car for 35k than a 100k car LOL !!" from people.

How can I expect it? By looking at the market leader.

If you check out BMW the supposed rival to the model 3, I've never seen them anti-sell their Series 3 cars. In fact they will sell you a Series 3 optioned with just about any flavor that you want and many of these variants will be "better" in certain respects than a basic 7 series.

You want a faster 0-60 time than a 7 series, no problem
You want better handling than a 7 series, no problem
You want a bigger engine than a 7 series, no problem
You want a
You want certain tech like Launch Control that's missing from the 7 series, no problem

BMW isn't shy about putting whatever they can into the 3 series and selling the HELL out of it. It's the reason they're the market leader in the midsize luxury segment. Is it "better" than a 7 series at a cheaper price? Well depending on what you're looking for, YES.

With their statements so far Tesla on the other hand seems to be intentionally crippling the Model 3, a car they want to sell at 10x or more volume to the S/X...and you know what, they can get away with it FOR NOW, because they have a pre-order backlog going for a couple years.

But I'm saying it right here and now, if they want to reach that goal actually selling 500,000 cars by 2018 / 1,000,000 per year by 2020 they are going to have to convince a whole lot of ICE customers to switch over. Intentionally stripping a car bare, now allowing customers to option it out, and setting it up as inferior in every way to the public will not get them there.

I get what you are saying, but they are probably also playing into the upgrades game, where they will keep rolling out new features to the 3 over time to keep people interested and coming back for more. Eventually, you might be able to outfit your 3 better than an S, but not in the first year.

EDIT: If I might add to this a little, I think Tesla has brilliantly positioned themselves somewhere between noble idealists who go bankrupt and capitalists who are just in business to make money. Sometimes you might not get what exactly you want, but sometimes it's just because you are seeing the business side butting it's nose into the mission to make sure the company stays in business. Is that what is going on here? I don't know, but I think that does happen from time to time.

 

[Big-T]

I get what you are saying, but they are probably also playing into the upgrades game, where they will keep rolling out new features to the 3 over time to keep people interested and coming back for more. Eventually, you might be able to outfit your 3 better than an S, but not in the first year.

EDIT: If I might add to this a little, I think Tesla has brilliantly positioned themselves somewhere between noble idealists who go bankrupt and capitalists who are just in business to make money. Sometimes you might not get what exactly you want, but sometimes it's just because you are seeing the business side butting it's nose into the mission to make sure the company stays in business. Is that what is going on here? I don't know, but I think that does happen from time to time.

I agree with you completely even though I'm not that thrilled with it as a customer. As I mentioned above they will HAVE to start offering options on par or better with the 3 and Y models come 2020 or mainstream people won't convert over. My original post is aimed at all the people that are writing in seemingly dumbfounded on how you can get a "better" car if it's cheaper. I wrote in to show that you certainly can, it's happening now - by the very brand that everyone compares themselves to no less.

 

[Tam]

...noble idealists...and capitalists...

According to Los Angeles Times:

Tesla's loss grows as Elon Musk claims customers are confused by Model 3 name

Tesla anti-sells Model 3 in response to customers' assumption that it will be a better, newer, more updated version of similarly current Model S.

Customers then would wait for Model 3 instead of buying better products right now.

The article then reported that "Tesla says Model S orders have taken a hit".

I am not sure I can be persuaded with the article's reasoning because:

The revenue is up 18.4% to $2.7 billion
Car deliveries are up 12% to 25,051.

I wouldn't call that as a "hit".

 

[Jayc]

I wrote in to show that you certainly can, it's happening now - by the very brand that everyone compares themselves to no less.

Unfortunately it is also the very brand right now struggling to do a worthwhile EV.

Look, Tesla has had to dig this EV tunnel themselves and they have done a brilliant job of it so far with the Roadster, S, X and no reason to believe 3 will be any different. This tunnel is heading right into the core folks but we really want the power generator going so don't limit your imagination, right now they might be aiming at the 3-series but this company is after the really big guns and they might not even be in the same industry. BMW is small fish, just wait and see.

 

[SoCalGuy]

I am attracted to the M3 mostly due to size (and looks) and wouldn't buy an S. I already have two large EVs (Fisker Karma) about the same size as the S and sometimes can be a pain to park. Love the idea of a good looking 3-series/C-class size EV with a solid EV range.

 

[Jleafs]

According to Los Angeles Times:

Tesla's loss grows as Elon Musk claims customers are confused by Model 3 name

Tesla anti-sells Model 3 in response to customers' assumption that it will be a better, newer, more updated version of similarly current Model S.

Customers then would wait for Model 3 instead of buying better products right now.

The article then reported that "Tesla says Model S orders have taken a hit".

I am not sure I can be persuaded with the article's reasoning because:

The revenue is up 18.4% to $2.7 billion
Car deliveries are up 12% to 25,051.

I wouldn't call that as a "hit".

Those are combined numbers for the S and X. If you look at the S numbers alone, there's a case there for low/stagnant growth. I don't know how much of that is attributable to supply vs. demand, but based on Elon's continued anti-selling of the 3, I'd say it's a concern for Tesla.

 

[JeffK]

If the high end fully loaded performance Model 3 is not arguably "better" than the base Model S75 at a similar price point then I will eat my hat...

I don't wear hats... but still.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yeah, the recent Twitter exchange also suggested that Elon regrets the "3" in Model 3, because it is causing confusion.

I am just not sure it is. All that much, in the sales stalling sense. The logical conclusion that a new car model from a manufacturer is in some ways worth the wait is only... logical.

It should not have come as a surprise for Tesla. People put off Model S orders to see what the Model X was about and they are doing, quite logically, the same for Model 3 (and much more so due to the price difference).

They should just discount, package and market the heck out of Model S in the meanwhile. That's the cure. Not badmouthing your future product.

 

[Garlan Garner]

If the high end fully loaded performance Model 3 is not arguably "better" than the base Model S75 at a similar price point then I will eat my hat...

I don't wear hats... but still.

It all depends on how each person defines "better".

 

[Chopr147]

As el crucero mentioned, while Model S has been using older cell 18650, Model 3 will use latest tech of 2170 cells.

This is what's most interesting to me. I'm curious to see how efficient the new battery cell is compared to the old. At some point I may change my reservation to a Model Y. The more I look at the 3 the more I feel it is too small.
As for the hype by TMC members? That is due to Tesla and Elon telling us what a great car the 3 will be. How it will be a smaller version of the S. Now Elon is downplaying it to sell more S and X vehicles.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Well, talking of batteries, Model S buyers may have just gotten one more reason to wait for Model 3 with those new cells...

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[Rumor]Tesla is reducing speed of Supercharging as your Tesla gets older