Sean Wagner
Member
It just hit me - the name Mission-E, which most seem to like, is probably just too close to e-missions for comfort.
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Porsche Mission E
- Thread starter MartinAustin
- Start date
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
I one drove a 911 Carrera GTS back in 2015. This was very fun to drive, more fun than a S P90D, as the handling was much better, stiffer. It was glued to the track. It had funny features as the sound button which made it louder externally by adjusting something mechanically in the exhaust.
As I already had an EV at that tme (i3), for me it was clear that I do not buy an ICE car any more. I was infected. I would have bought a Macan if no Model X or other EV SUVs would have been at the horizon.
If the Macan would have been electric, I would have bought the Macan. Not because of Porsche, but because of the better smaller size than the X and the good looks.
Nowadays, it is different. I will not buy from VW group anything any more no mather how good it is. They are cheaters and still cheat. I am shoked about the culture in these companies. The Taycan looks ugly too, same ugly car as the Panamera. Wrong proportions. And last but not least, only Tesla got EV right with their awesome charging network. As long as this is not fixed by the other manufacturers, I am stick to Tesla.
As I already had an EV at that tme (i3), for me it was clear that I do not buy an ICE car any more. I was infected. I would have bought a Macan if no Model X or other EV SUVs would have been at the horizon.
If the Macan would have been electric, I would have bought the Macan. Not because of Porsche, but because of the better smaller size than the X and the good looks.
Nowadays, it is different. I will not buy from VW group anything any more no mather how good it is. They are cheaters and still cheat. I am shoked about the culture in these companies. The Taycan looks ugly too, same ugly car as the Panamera. Wrong proportions. And last but not least, only Tesla got EV right with their awesome charging network. As long as this is not fixed by the other manufacturers, I am stick to Tesla.
The concept car was actually 4,850 mm long, the Model S is 4,980 mm long and the Model 3 is 4,690 mm long.
Not sure how long the production car will be, but I could see them pitching it against the 5-series, A6, E-Class, all of them around 4,930 mm. Since the new Panamera is close in length to the A8, S-Class and 7 series.
Anyone have a picture or description of the what it looks like head on with its DRLs? I think I saw this car going from DC to Arlington yesterday on 395 and then up Wash Blvd. It was in my rear view mirror, and driving a little aggressively but didn’t go past me as I slowed to try to let it come next to me. It had an odd large squareish hood emblem and was black and had distinctive day time running lights — led strip curved at the base of the headlights. I couldn’t tell what car it was.
Valore
Member
Taycan will sell like crazy here in Zürich.
Blu Angel
Member
Funny, I think you will be the 1st Swiss owner of the Tesla Roadster come 2020!
Blu Angel
Member
Tesla 2020 Roadster
0-100 kph 1.9 sec
$200,000 base
The better question is how will Taycan vs Roadster sales battle
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AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Well, just going by the numbers, the Taycan base price is less than half that of the new Roadster, so totally different target demographic.
Blu Angel
Member
That may be so.
However by the time you add all the Porsche options the price will be equivalent!
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
I don't know in what kind of world you are living, but I know one thing: people who can afford a 2020 Roadster can of course easily afford a Taycan. People who can afford a Taycan can't necessarily also afford a 2020 Roadster. And saying that you can option out an 80K car to 200K (which is also just the quoted base price of the Roadster) is just ridiculous. Can you quote an example?
And @davidc18: what was so funny about my post? Or did you fail to hit the Disagree button properly?
From what I've read Porsche is planning on production around 20K a year and some think that's ambitious. To put that in perspective, that's only 40% of Model S production. It's lower than Chevy Bolt production numbers.
The Taycan will have some following in the sports car community, but beyond that it will likely be a niche car.
The Taycan will have some following in the sports car community, but beyond that it will likely be a niche car.
Blu Angel
Member
Austin,
Looks like the equivalent HP "Lively Young Horse" to the Tesla Roadster will be $190,000 version.
Typical Porsche "Adding up the options!
However, it will be a mighty impressive Porsche...dare I say...the future!
Porsche doesn't just make one 911, and the same will be true for the Taycan. Porsche boss Oliver Blume who confirmed that the car will likely follow Porsche's model preexisting hierarchy—that means you can expect a Taycan S or a Taycan GTS.
Automobile Magazine reported the car will be initially offered with three power outputs 402 hp, 536 hp, and 670 hp. Like a Tesla Model S, the Taycan will have electric motors at the front and rear axles for all-wheel drive, but Porsche might eventually sell an entry-level rear-drive version.
The Mission E concept offers 605 hp from its all-electric drivetrain, which consists of two permanent=magnet synchronous motors at each axle. These are the same sort of motors used in the three-time-Le-Mans-winning 919 LMP1 hybrid, and can recover heat energy from braking. With this setup, Porsche promises that the Mission E concept hits 60 mph in 3.5 seconds, 124 mph in under 12, and that it'll run a sub-8:00 lap at the Nürburgring Nordschleife.
The production Taycan will likely get four-wheel steering and torque vectoring as well. Porsche boss Oliver Blume promised in 2015 that the production carwould drive like a true Porsche. Typically, that means good things.
It'll Have Two Battery Capacity Options
Car and Driver reports the production Taycan will be offered with a choice of battery packs—one offering around 80 kWh and another offering 95 kWh. If you want the most horsepower, you'll need the biggest battery.
Stefan Weckbach, head of EV development at Porsche, also told Car and Driver the Taycan will have a battery cooling system. Porsche wants the Taycan to offer consistent, repeatable performance, and keeping the battery within an ideal operating temperature.
It'll Be Priced Like a Panamera
Blume told Car that the Taycan will start at around the same price as a Panamera. In the US, the base Panamera starts at $85,000 and prices climb up to nearly $190,000 for the most expensive variant, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid Sport Turismo. Blume also said that the Taycan supposed to sit between the Panamera and the 911 within the Porsche range.
Looks like the equivalent HP "Lively Young Horse" to the Tesla Roadster will be $190,000 version.
Typical Porsche "Adding up the options!
However, it will be a mighty impressive Porsche...dare I say...the future!
Porsche doesn't just make one 911, and the same will be true for the Taycan. Porsche boss Oliver Blume who confirmed that the car will likely follow Porsche's model preexisting hierarchy—that means you can expect a Taycan S or a Taycan GTS.
Automobile Magazine reported the car will be initially offered with three power outputs 402 hp, 536 hp, and 670 hp. Like a Tesla Model S, the Taycan will have electric motors at the front and rear axles for all-wheel drive, but Porsche might eventually sell an entry-level rear-drive version.
The Mission E concept offers 605 hp from its all-electric drivetrain, which consists of two permanent=magnet synchronous motors at each axle. These are the same sort of motors used in the three-time-Le-Mans-winning 919 LMP1 hybrid, and can recover heat energy from braking. With this setup, Porsche promises that the Mission E concept hits 60 mph in 3.5 seconds, 124 mph in under 12, and that it'll run a sub-8:00 lap at the Nürburgring Nordschleife.
The production Taycan will likely get four-wheel steering and torque vectoring as well. Porsche boss Oliver Blume promised in 2015 that the production carwould drive like a true Porsche. Typically, that means good things.
It'll Have Two Battery Capacity Options
Car and Driver reports the production Taycan will be offered with a choice of battery packs—one offering around 80 kWh and another offering 95 kWh. If you want the most horsepower, you'll need the biggest battery.
Stefan Weckbach, head of EV development at Porsche, also told Car and Driver the Taycan will have a battery cooling system. Porsche wants the Taycan to offer consistent, repeatable performance, and keeping the battery within an ideal operating temperature.
It'll Be Priced Like a Panamera
Blume told Car that the Taycan will start at around the same price as a Panamera. In the US, the base Panamera starts at $85,000 and prices climb up to nearly $190,000 for the most expensive variant, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid Sport Turismo. Blume also said that the Taycan supposed to sit between the Panamera and the 911 within the Porsche range.
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Austin,
Looks like the equivalent HP "Lively Young Horse" to the Tesla Roadster will be $190,000 version.
Typical Porsche "Adding up the options!
However, it will be a mighty impressive Porsche...dare I say...the future!
Porsche doesn't just make one 911, and the same will be true for the Taycan. Porsche boss Oliver Blume who confirmed that the car will likely follow Porsche's model preexisting hierarchy—that means you can expect a Taycan S or a Taycan GTS.
Automobile Magazine reported the car will be initially offered with three power outputs 402 hp, 536 hp, and 670 hp. Like a Tesla Model S, the Taycan will have electric motors at the front and rear axles for all-wheel drive, but Porsche might eventually sell an entry-level rear-drive version.
The Mission E concept offers 605 hp from its all-electric drivetrain, which consists of two permanent=magnet synchronous motors at each axle. These are the same sort of motors used in the three-time-Le-Mans-winning 919 LMP1 hybrid, and can recover heat energy from braking. With this setup, Porsche promises that the Mission E concept hits 60 mph in 3.5 seconds, 124 mph in under 12, and that it'll run a sub-8:00 lap at the Nürburgring Nordschleife.
The production Taycan will likely get four-wheel steering and torque vectoring as well. Porsche boss Oliver Blume promised in 2015 that the production carwould drive like a true Porsche. Typically, that means good things.
It'll Have Two Battery Capacity Options
Car and Driver reports the production Taycan will be offered with a choice of battery packs—one offering around 80 kWh and another offering 95 kWh. If you want the most horsepower, you'll need the biggest battery.
Stefan Weckbach, head of EV development at Porsche, also told Car and Driver the Taycan will have a battery cooling system. Porsche wants the Taycan to offer consistent, repeatable performance, and keeping the battery within an ideal operating temperature.
It'll Be Priced Like a Panamera
Blume told Car that the Taycan will start at around the same price as a Panamera. In the US, the base Panamera starts at $85,000 and prices climb up to nearly $190,000 for the most expensive variant, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid Sport Turismo. Blume also said that the Taycan supposed to sit between the Panamera and the 911 within the Porsche range.
Sure the Taycan will have a 150k+ version, maybe even close to 200k with options, but a) that version will probably be even faster and b) very, very well equipped. Sure for a bit more you can buy the base Roadster at some point in the future, but one is a pretty large sedan and one is a 2+2 sports car. People buy 160k Panameras today, even though an 80k Corvette is quicker to 60 and around a track.
Blu Angel
Member
Porsche is aiming to produce 20,000 Taycans at the Zuffenhausen site.
Starting and ramping the production of the all-electric sedan requires a complex reorganization of Porsche’s facility, especially considering that the Taycan’s line has to be built while the production of the 911, 718 Boxster, and 718 Cayman is running at full capacity. In a statement to Dutch auto publication Vroom, Porsche head of production Albrecht Reimold described the difficulties facing the company. (For full article, go to link below)
Tesla rival Porsche is starting to realize it's not easy to produce the Taycan
Starting and ramping the production of the all-electric sedan requires a complex reorganization of Porsche’s facility, especially considering that the Taycan’s line has to be built while the production of the 911, 718 Boxster, and 718 Cayman is running at full capacity. In a statement to Dutch auto publication Vroom, Porsche head of production Albrecht Reimold described the difficulties facing the company. (For full article, go to link below)
Tesla rival Porsche is starting to realize it's not easy to produce the Taycan
Trying to parse the latest info from Electrec about the Taycan.
First off, we can ignore that 800V aspect. The voltage of the charge cable is irrelevant to the battery cells, which always charge at their cell voltage. The real question is to what sort of cells they're using, how much, what the charge profile is, and how efficient the vehicle is.
First off, we have the range - a nominal 500km. This is surely WLTP. Using the Leaf's WLTP:EPA range of 1,13:1, this becomes 442km, or 274mi EPA.
We're told 400km (aka 80%) in 15 minutes. Let's assume that they're actually using a reasonable chunk of the theoretical 350kW - say, 340kW - at peak. We can get the extremes of this charge curve - a taper starting 340kW at 0% down to 0kW at 100%, or no taper at all. With a taper starting at 0, we average 204kW and store 51kWh. With a flat charge, we start and end at 340kW, and store 85kWh. I expect the former to be much closer to reality, given that one expects them to be pushing the batteries to their limits at 350kW, which you can generally only do at low SoCs. Say, a 60kWh pack. This equates to 120Wh/km WLTP, or a 218 Wh/mi EPA. That's a very low energy consumption! 85kWh would be a 309Wh/mi EPA consumption, while 51kWh would be 185Wh/mi.
We're told that the cells (not packs) are 270Wh/kg, which is quite high. This is the opposite of what I was anticipating; I was expecting them to be using a high power density / low energy density chemistry, but this is a high energy density chemistry. The other possibility I was thinking about to explain them being able to use 350kW was that they'd have a very large battery pack, paired with an inefficient (e.g. high downforce, "sporty looking") vehicle. Yet the possible battery pack sizes aren't that large, and the vehicle doesn't look to be inefficient.
So I hate to say it, but I'm as baffled as ever. I don't know what they're doing. Maybe their solution is just "fry the cells". I mean, if the vehicle is expensive enough, who cares whether they have to replace the pack a couple times under warranty?
First off, we can ignore that 800V aspect. The voltage of the charge cable is irrelevant to the battery cells, which always charge at their cell voltage. The real question is to what sort of cells they're using, how much, what the charge profile is, and how efficient the vehicle is.
First off, we have the range - a nominal 500km. This is surely WLTP. Using the Leaf's WLTP:EPA range of 1,13:1, this becomes 442km, or 274mi EPA.
We're told 400km (aka 80%) in 15 minutes. Let's assume that they're actually using a reasonable chunk of the theoretical 350kW - say, 340kW - at peak. We can get the extremes of this charge curve - a taper starting 340kW at 0% down to 0kW at 100%, or no taper at all. With a taper starting at 0, we average 204kW and store 51kWh. With a flat charge, we start and end at 340kW, and store 85kWh. I expect the former to be much closer to reality, given that one expects them to be pushing the batteries to their limits at 350kW, which you can generally only do at low SoCs. Say, a 60kWh pack. This equates to 120Wh/km WLTP, or a 218 Wh/mi EPA. That's a very low energy consumption! 85kWh would be a 309Wh/mi EPA consumption, while 51kWh would be 185Wh/mi.
We're told that the cells (not packs) are 270Wh/kg, which is quite high. This is the opposite of what I was anticipating; I was expecting them to be using a high power density / low energy density chemistry, but this is a high energy density chemistry. The other possibility I was thinking about to explain them being able to use 350kW was that they'd have a very large battery pack, paired with an inefficient (e.g. high downforce, "sporty looking") vehicle. Yet the possible battery pack sizes aren't that large, and the vehicle doesn't look to be inefficient.
So I hate to say it, but I'm as baffled as ever. I don't know what they're doing. Maybe their solution is just "fry the cells". I mean, if the vehicle is expensive enough, who cares whether they have to replace the pack a couple times under warranty?
Valore
Member
That's actually pretty good, higher than Tesla Model 3 and Model S.
Model 3 LR has 4416 batteries at 70 grams giving 309 kg for 80kWh.
That gives the Model 3 259Wh/kg at cell level. Those guys at LG Chem have done their homework.
Porsche has a rep for getting the details right, but battery powered cars are an all new thing for them. Maybe to get the "Tesla killer" performance they made some mistakes pushing the battery tech too far? The details do seem odd.
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