Premium Connectivity cost $9.99/month for many Model 3 versions

[neurocutie]

Ok let me explain then. The Premium Connectivity was part of a car's cost of goods sold. So tesla was factoring it into the price of the car. Now that they are removing the feature from the price of the car, their gross margins will increase. Thus, it will improve profits.

Tesla now charges for its SuperCharger Network even though it was "free" before. Elon has stated that despite now charging for it, it is NOT intended as a revenue stream. Same thing for $10/mo Premium Connectivity. Neither is intended to make Tesla any money, not directly anyways.

But my main point is, given little or no profit motive for the $10/mo rate, why not encourage Tesla to then allow us to use Wifi hotspots or BT tethering to replace that functionality? Other car companies are doing it. Tesla already recommends you park your Tesla within range of Wifi for updates, etc.

 

[camalaio]

Whoa, this thread really blew up eh? I just went through all my Tesla paperwork that I could find and indeed, like I thought, nothing mentions that Premium Connectivity is a free trial (nor is there a time limit on anything else I could find other than the warranties, of course).

In fact, to this day, the Canadian website just lists "Premium Interior Includes: ... Satellite-view maps with live traffic visualization and navigation ... In-car internet streaming music & media" without any mention of a time limit. Technically, I suppose this doesn't call-out cellular connectivity, but I also don't expect anyone to understand that the included "in-car streaming music" is only for when you're parked and connected to WiFi. In a car. That thing that's meant to travel on roads.

The reason people are mad is because it looks like they sold you a feature, but then retract it and demand more money for something you already paid for. It's a disgusting business practice, plain and simple. It being "only" $10/month isn't the point, they shouldn't take back what you paid for and then ask you to pay for it indefinitely in order to get it back.

IMO, this is like someone buying an old permanent license version of Adobe Photoshop (however much that costed when available, let's just say it was $800 or something), but then Adobe decides you need to now pay $1/month to even start the application you already paid $800 for already. Of course, Adobe only has this per-month subscription now with "Creative Cloud", but they didn't disable existing licenses that people paid for in full!

It should also be noted that Tesla isn't providing the Spotify accounts (at all) nor the Slacker accounts (beyond 1 year, allegedly) that "In-car internet streaming music" would also potentially imply. So what exactly does "In-car internet streaming music & media" mean if it doesn't mean cellular connectivity nor service subscription? Literally just the "app" in the car that can't do anything by itself?

Convenience = Not having to turn on, connect to and use hotspot every single time you want to use the hotspot
Ease Of Use = Interacting with the majority of a 15" screen and keyboard vs. a small phone screen and keyboard
State Laws . = It's illegal to use your phone in some states while driving
Sound Quality = Higher bitrate stations could sound better vs listening over bluetooth
Different Wireless Vender (AT&T in the US for Tesla) may = better coverage

It's definitely a "too each their own opinion" situation, and I'm not even sure which way I'm going to land yet, but those points are what is helping me to decide.

Regarding "Sound Quality", not sure if this has improved or not but the streaming quality of Spotify via the car is not high. The higher quality options streamed over Bluetooth from my phone sounds significantly better. Not to mention that spotty signal (common on my routes) don't matter to my phone (stored music cache), but render the in-car media controls frozen and useless until restart. Such Premium.

I don't see how $120/year for Premium Connectivity is a revenue stream. That is very close to the cost of such services from any of the major carriers -- MAYBE they can get it for $5/mo wholesale and make $50/year, maybe...

Who is the carrier? Unlikely to be Sprint (the cheapest) since their coverage is crap. Probably AT&T. Can't get LTE data from AT&T for $10/mo (certainly not and make a profit)...

$120/year is literally revenue. Revenue is not necessarily profit. And recurring revenue is the best kind of revenue when it comes to business valuations, so this is incredibly value to Tesla.

All good points.

When I was in Yosemite my T-Mobile Iphone had absolutely no coverage. But AT&T had at least some coverage there which allowed the Teslas to navigate around.

Relying on your phone for navigation in California can get you in trouble. The laws are a little sketchy around what is allowed and is not allowed, but just holding it in your hand and interacting with it can set you up for a ticket. I had a long conversation with a police officer about this a while back. Apparently just touching the screen once, as in to accept a traffic reroute, is allowed. But entering an address would not be allowed while driving.

All of this is avoided with the Tesla display screen as there are no laws preventing you from interacting with the built in display of your car while driving.

Smartphones still have massive benefits compared to the Tesla "apps" for low-/no-signal areas:

• Offline maps. No proper and easy way to pre-download maps for areas with poor connectivity. Routing information still works at a lower res (or so it seemed) but map imagery is completely gone and/or useless.
• Offline audio. Most streaming music apps on phones either automatically keep an offline cache or you can specifically make playlists available offline.
• Less bugs. Loss of connectivity for Tesla streaming media causes a lot of issues, often needing a restart to get everything back. Phone apps handle this very well in comparison.

I suppose this would be a strong argument for Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. Instead of trying to maintain feature parity with smartphones, just let them provide the features with much better support.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Hopefully now that they are charging they will allow a few more services into the mix. It would be nice to incorporate iheartradio. They have a bunch of AM stations not otherwise accessible aside from flaky digital FM signals.

Radio.com would be another one that they could add.

 

[RonFTW]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10036739/detroit_auto_show_2018_dodge_ram_5823.jpg

there's an example from a dodge truck.

Carplay using half the screen, bottom is still the "car" interface with a bunch of options for what you want displayed there.

IIRC the ability to only use "part" of the screen for carplay has been in at least some FCA vehicles since like 2017 or something? and is in a number of other cars now as well.






I mean- it is, since you kept mentioning resources and autopilot... but AP runs on its own computer not on the infotainment computer, so running something else on the infotainment system wouldn't impact AP at all resource-wise.




On MCU2 cars? (which are all Model 3s, and all S/X cars made in the last couple years) yes....pretty comfortably.

Might be an issue on MCU1 cars I guess-(mid 2016 and older)- but those are already losing out on new features going forward so nothing unexpected there.

you are saying that without providing data, just assumptions.

 

[Stach]

Radio.com would be another one that they could add.

Pandora!

 

[ALSETJC]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10036739/detroit_auto_show_2018_dodge_ram_5823.jpg

there's an example from a dodge truck.

Carplay using half the screen, bottom is still the "car" interface with a bunch of options for what you want displayed there.

IIRC the ability to only use "part" of the screen for carplay has been in at least some FCA vehicles since like 2017 or something? and is in a number of other cars now as well.






I mean- it is, since you kept mentioning resources and autopilot... but AP runs on its own computer not on the infotainment computer, so running something else on the infotainment system wouldn't impact AP at all resource-wise.




On MCU2 cars? (which are all Model 3s, and all S/X cars made in the last couple years) yes....pretty comfortably.

Might be an issue on MCU1 cars I guess-(mid 2016 and older)- but those are already losing out on new features going forward so nothing unexpected there.

You're on the same page as me.
The requirements to run Android auto and Carplay are very minimal, most of it is a projection from the phone which is doing all the hard work.

We both understand that it is very useful to have and to use Waze or play music/ apple music as well as responding to text messages by voice or reading messages . So much good stuff we are missing and it would not take away anything from the car. On top of that we can use the data we already pay for.

 

[e-sk8r]

Maybe once we start paying the subscription the satellite
Maps will appear

Satellite and traffic started showing up Saturday night. Guess they just hadn’t flipped the switch yet.

 

[SMAlset]

Zooms only last a couple of seconds and take your eyes off the road for far too long. (No AP of any kind on my car).

Confused because I just drove around town running errands and zoomed in several levels on my satellite map (using the + ) and the zoom level never changed on me the whole time--stayed enlarged. This was local roads and not using AP at all.

 

[jerry33]

Confused because I just drove around town running errands and zoomed in several levels on my satellite map (using the + ) and the zoom level never changed on me the whole time--stayed enlarged. This was local roads and not using AP at all.

I haven't used the + - buttons in some time because the last time I used them, they didn't stay for more than a few seconds, just like zooming with pinch.

 

[vickh]

It showed up for me without subscribing.

me 2, had to reset ( after a possible unrelated white screen when I left the car while family tried to watch hulu)

 

[ljkelley]

What OEMs give away free internet connectivity and a streaming audio service? Not to mention that Tesla gives free navigation map updates to everyone.

Looks like everyone here fails at reading comprehension. I wasn't talking about Netflix or the Internet. I don't disagree with paying for those features. I was talking about traffic updates. Those are free for 5 years on my Mercedes. I researched and BMW offers them for free for 4 years. Forcing me to pay for Internet that I don't need for traffic updates that I do.

In addition both of those offer the option to use CarPlay instead which is free to me as long as I have a compatible iPhone. I can then download Google Maps with free traffic or use Apple Maps.

Somebody else asked, so yes Mercedes offer free map updates for 5 years. I don't think I care though because I've used CarPlay since day one.

 

[diamond.g]

Whoa, this thread really blew up eh? I just went through all my Tesla paperwork that I could find and indeed, like I thought, nothing mentions that Premium Connectivity is a free trial (nor is there a time limit on anything else I could find other than the warranties, of course).

In fact, to this day, the Canadian website just lists "Premium Interior Includes: ... Satellite-view maps with live traffic visualization and navigation ... In-car internet streaming music & media" without any mention of a time limit. Technically, I suppose this doesn't call-out cellular connectivity, but I also don't expect anyone to understand that the included "in-car streaming music" is only for when you're parked and connected to WiFi. In a car. That thing that's meant to travel on roads.

The reason people are mad is because it looks like they sold you a feature, but then retract it and demand more money for something you already paid for. It's a disgusting business practice, plain and simple. It being "only" $10/month isn't the point, they shouldn't take back what you paid for and then ask you to pay for it indefinitely in order to get it back.

IMO, this is like someone buying an old permanent license version of Adobe Photoshop (however much that costed when available, let's just say it was $800 or something), but then Adobe decides you need to now pay $1/month to even start the application you already paid $800 for already. Of course, Adobe only has this per-month subscription now with "Creative Cloud", but they didn't disable existing licenses that people paid for in full!

It should also be noted that Tesla isn't providing the Spotify accounts (at all) nor the Slacker accounts (beyond 1 year, allegedly) that "In-car internet streaming music" would also potentially imply. So what exactly does "In-car internet streaming music & media" mean if it doesn't mean cellular connectivity nor service subscription? Literally just the "app" in the car that can't do anything by itself?



Regarding "Sound Quality", not sure if this has improved or not but the streaming quality of Spotify via the car is not high. The higher quality options streamed over Bluetooth from my phone sounds significantly better. Not to mention that spotty signal (common on my routes) don't matter to my phone (stored music cache), but render the in-car media controls frozen and useless until restart. Such Premium.



$120/year is literally revenue. Revenue is not necessarily profit. And recurring revenue is the best kind of revenue when it comes to business valuations, so this is incredibly value to Tesla.



Smartphones still have massive benefits compared to the Tesla "apps" for low-/no-signal areas:

• Offline maps. No proper and easy way to pre-download maps for areas with poor connectivity. Routing information still works at a lower res (or so it seemed) but map imagery is completely gone and/or useless.
• Offline audio. Most streaming music apps on phones either automatically keep an offline cache or you can specifically make playlists available offline.
• Less bugs. Loss of connectivity for Tesla streaming media causes a lot of issues, often needing a restart to get everything back. Phone apps handle this very well in comparison.

I suppose this would be a strong argument for Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. Instead of trying to maintain feature parity with smartphones, just let them provide the features with much better support.

AA and CP would be a great add if they had API access and could route me through SC’s on a trip (and show me how much battery I should have at any given point and time on said trip).

 

[Knightshade]

you are saying that without providing data, just assumptions.

Uh, I just showed you a picture of the thing you asked for as evidence that you appearntly didn't realize was widely available for years.

And as noted running carplay is trivial hardware-wise as it's mainly just mirroring your phone.

The media computer in the model 3 is vastly more powerful than the typical one in most vehicles offering carplay or AA... the specs are pretty easily and widely available if you care to look for em.

 

[Knightshade]

Looks like everyone here fails at reading comprehension. I wasn't talking about Netflix or the Internet. I don't disagree with paying for those features. I was talking about traffic updates. Those are free for 5 years on my Mercedes. I researched and BMW offers them for free for 4 years.

They're free forever on your tesla nav system.

It just won't also display the traffic it's using to route you.

Moreover Tesla has been offering free map updates, multiple times a year, basically since they began mass producing cars.

BMW was still charging $150 a year until a couple years ago.

Here's the 2016 update still asking $150 to buy it.

ShopBMWUSA.com: BMW 2019 NBT NAVIGATION SYSTEM UPDATE

Over at Mercedes it's even worse

They'll update your maps for free for 3 years. But only once a year.

AND you have to visit a dealer to have it done.

AND after 3 years (not 5) they charge you. Mercedes claims the 3 free years are worth "nearly $750"

Implying you'll be spending nearly $750 for years 4-6.

In a Tesla that'd be $0.

In fact after 6 years in both you'd have paid $600 total for premium connectivity in the Tesla (one year free plus $120 times 6) for updates you get multiple times a year delivered right to your car wherever it is versus nearly $750 in the Mercedes for once-a-year updates you have to visit the dealer to get.


Tell me again how Mercedes doesn't suck in this comparison? (apart from being slow and using gas I mean...)


Source on MB being 3 years, not 5, here:
MB | Multi Year Update Program | HERE

 

[Bobfitz1]

Hah, I'm only informed because I spend way too much of my life on Tesla forums.

Tesla uses a SIM card from AT&T. Unfortunately, that SIM card is not capable of network switching. So if you have a phone or a friend with a phone with AT&T, you can get a pretty good sense of how Tesla's cellular data will perform in an area.

Cellular strength is displayed with an icon in the top-right corner of the screen (1 to 5 bars depending on strength). I have seen it go from LTE, to 4G, to 3G on weaker signals. You can tap on the LTE icon to set up WiFi networks, and when the car is connected to a WiFi network, the LTE icon is replaced with a WiFi icon that displays the WiFi signal strength.

The phone app works even when the vehicle and the phone have no cellular or wifi connection. The phone can connect to the car via Bluetooth only. And Premium Connectivity isn't required for any of the features for the phone app; it all works over Standard Connection.

Thank you! This is just the info I was hoping to learn. I too spend way too much time on the forums, but until I have my own M3 or MY the investment sub forum and SpaceX of course, are the ones getting most of my attention.

 

[Fredneck]

The phone app works even when the vehicle and the phone have no cellular or wifi connection. The phone can connect to the car via Bluetooth only. And Premium Connectivity isn't required for any of the features for the phone app; it all works over Standard Connection.

Unless I am very under-informed, the phone app is very limited and will only handle the phone interface and display two days of your calendar. There is no way to send text to the phone by voice or do any other function your phone is capable of.

Oh, well. It's not like it's a very smart car. I give it a B-.

 

[outie]

Mmm fake news?

FWIW, I specifically mentioned that Tesla would not have the system in place by July 2019 and that was true. It's been another 5 months since then and they finally have the billing system in place. We all knew it was coming, just not right after that so-called 1year free trial.

 

[RonFTW]

Uh, I just showed you a picture of the thing you asked for as evidence that you appearntly didn't realize was widely available for years.

And as noted running carplay is trivial hardware-wise as it's mainly just mirroring your phone.

The media computer in the model 3 is vastly more powerful than the typical one in most vehicles offering carplay or AA... the specs are pretty easily and widely available if you care to look for em.

You're not actually paying attention in detail and you're more stuck in your assumption that you are right rather than actually listening to what I'm telling you.

What you showed me was for sure proof that CP can operate using a partial screen - however that is only part of the equation. (forget that it was ugly as sin).

I specifically asked you, do you literally have the data available that shows Tesla can allocate resources to CP while maintaining enough resources for their own software now, AND IN THE FUTURE...?

I will agree that, the decision to exclude carplay may be more of a philosophical decision rather rather than a decision from hardware limitation - however there is literally no way to confirm this without speaking with someone from Tesla or getting their direct response.

You telling me that carplay already operates on computers that are far less capable than Tesla literally means nothing to this conversation, and further shows you're not paying attention.

 

[willow_hiller]

Unless I am very under-informed, the phone app is very limited and will only handle the phone interface and display two days of your calendar. There is no way to send text to the phone by voice or do any other function your phone is capable of.

Oh, well. It's not like it's a very smart car. I give it a B-.

I was talking about the smartphone app that let's you precondition the car, set the charge level, lock/unlock, summon, etc. All of that is on the phone screen.

You're talking about the phone interface in the car. You're right it does phone calls and calendar, but it also does a general purpose audio connection via Bluetooth that works for Spotify on your phone, or MP3s. I'm not too fussed with not having Android auto, Tesla updates the firmware once or twice a month. I'm sure they'll eventually implement text messages and whatnot.

 

[ljkelley]

They're free forever on your tesla nav system.

It just won't also display the traffic it's using to route you.

Moreover Tesla has been offering free map updates, multiple times a year, basically since they began mass producing cars.

BMW was still charging $150 a year until a couple years ago.

Here's the 2016 update still asking $150 to buy it.

ShopBMWUSA.com: BMW 2019 NBT NAVIGATION SYSTEM UPDATE

Over at Mercedes it's even worse

They'll update your maps for free for 3 years. But only once a year.

AND you have to visit a dealer to have it done.

AND after 3 years (not 5) they charge you. Mercedes claims the 3 free years are worth "nearly $750"

Implying you'll be spending nearly $750 for years 4-6.

In a Tesla that'd be $0.

In fact after 6 years in both you'd have paid $600 total for premium connectivity in the Tesla (one year free plus $120 times 6) for updates you get multiple times a year delivered right to your car wherever it is versus nearly $750 in the Mercedes for once-a-year updates you have to visit the dealer to get.


Tell me again how Mercedes doesn't suck in this comparison? (apart from being slow and using gas I mean...)


Source on MB being 3 years, not 5, here:
MB | Multi Year Update Program | HERE

Except your information is out of date. The new MBUX infotainment system from Mercedes gets online map updates.

Get the latest updates, in your vehicle and on the go.

• With Mercedes me connect, you may never want to exit your Mercedes-Benz. Activate your services to enjoy:
• Live Traffic Information
• Online Map Updates
• Car-to-X Communication

Regardless my vehicle supports CarPlay so I don't have to worry about paying for map updates, as does every Mercedes (standard equipment).

There is nothing guaranteed about Tesla, and they may charge for anything in the future or increase prices including map updates.

Regardless for most Mercedes owners, it is a better experience because they usually lease for 3 years and won't pay anything on top of their lease.

The EQC looks really interesting and has MBUX. But more importantly it has Mercedes behind it and their great customer service. My friend had issues with his car and they really took good care of him. Tesla has treated me like dirt. I emailed the service manager at my local service center last week for an update and no response. His last email said that they had a hood painted and ready to be installed but no appt availability yet. That was in October.

And lastly that just seems petty from Tesla. They'll use the traffic info (so that means they are downloading it) but won't display it. Which is useless if I want to override. I wish Apple would make a car, because CarPlay is great and actually pops up and tells me why its changing my route and how much time it thinks it will save me.