Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[SammichLover]

If you're asking about when the 93% rebalancing or whatever was changed to rebalancing at 90% probably no one outside Tesla can say definitively. What is clear is that when they changed to a slider the default value to charge to for daily was changed to 90% (from 93%).

Edit: That is to say model 3 had slider set to 90% as default from day 1 and there was never a time when default for daily was over 90%.

Of course not on the Model 3, the 93% charging set point was before there was a sliding setpoint. It was a binary toggle, this was several years ago.

The slider doesn’t mean anything here, I’m talking about the rebalancing and there is stuff you can watch for on that. Can’t be 100% certain but can be reasonably confident that 93% is (or at least was within the last year) still the trigger for rebalancing (<edit> on the S & X).

 

[Rothgarr]

View attachment 462253

I've definitely seen a decrease in expected range starting with 32.2, and have only seen the range continue to decrease with 10.1 and 11. I haven't been able to view any changes in wh/mi yet but exploring TeslaFi further to see how to pull that detail.

Did you create that with Teslafi?

 

[Z PYD]

Did you create that with Teslafi?

Yea, I pulled the data from the TeslaFi Battery Report and manipulated it a little bit to focus on the software updates.

 

[bedoig]

Are we sure this whole rebalancing thing even really exists on modern Teslas and/or the Model 3? Are we really sure it even existed on older Teslas? I know people have talked about it anecdotally for years. Even my old 2013 Leaf kept all cell groups within ~20 mV of each other. My 3 seems to keep things within 6-8 mV over the majority of the SOC range. Just wondering if we have some kind of hard data to back up the rebalancing claims or if it's just some kind of artifact of what Tesla software presents to the user. If we're not talking about voltage balance between cell groups, what are we talking about?

 

[voip-ninja]

Are we sure this whole rebalancing thing even really exists on modern Teslas and/or the Model 3? Are we really sure it even existed on older Teslas? I know people have talked about it anecdotally for years. Even my old 2013 Leaf kept all cell groups within ~20 mV of each other. My 3 seems to keep things within 6-8 mV over the majority of the SOC range. Just wondering if we have some kind of hard data to back up the rebalancing claims or if it's just some kind of artifact of what Tesla software presents to the user. If we're not talking about voltage balance between cell groups, what are we talking about?

Well, the LikeTesla video where they shockingly discovered their 100% charge range was showing 258 miles (I believe both in the energy graph and in the range estimate on the main display) seemed to strongly imply that some kind of cell balancing was needed. They had been charging the car sporadically and only to 70% or so.

The car had the BMS reset, they charged it up to 100% a couple of times and discharged it to 10% and then after that did 90% nightly charges and eventually the battery "recovered" from either cell imbalance or way off display of the range from a confused BMS.

I'm curious if this "fix" persisted for them. In a Reddit thread someone else tried the same thing and the range went off a cliff again a month or so later.

 

[GregD60]

voip, what firmware are you on? I wanted to wait a little while before saying anything to make sure it's consistent, but immediately after I installed 32.2.2, the reported range on my car went down by 6 or 7 miles at a 90% charge level. I've noticed this every single night for the last week and a half, and that includes after updating to 32.11.1 a couple of days ago. Prior to this change, the car consistently showed either 278 or 279 miles in the morning with every once in a while a 277 or 280. Now, it is consistently showing 271 or 272.

For the last 8 to 9 months, I've been charging up to 90% every night, and other than a road trip in June, my charging habits have been very consistent. I have 14,400 miles on the car now. I really think the change in reported range is related to the firmware since nothing else changed with my car or driving habits, and the decrease occurred immediately after updating the firmware. I don't think that was coincidence, and it is exceedingly unlikely that the batteries would have lost 2% of range overnight. I think Tesla change something in the way that they have the car reporting the range.

I know that this is far less than the difference you've noted, but maybe it's part of the reason.

 

[bigroccrek]

I fully charged my M3 last night (100%) just to check and it will only charge to 285 miles! This is not making me very happy.

 

[derotam]

Original charge estimate was for 7 hours. At 7 hours the car showed 30 minutes of charging left and it stayed this way for over an hour

Just for clarity, did you let it finish ALL the way, meaning it wasn't showing "charging" anymore or did you stop it before that point?

 

[GregD60]

I've experienced the same thing. I've been charging up to 90% every night for 8 to 9 months, and it always showed a range of 278 or 279 miles in the morning. After updating to 32.2.2, it dropped down to 272 or 273 and in the last two days after updating to 32.11.1, it's shown 272 and 271.

 

[voip-ninja]

Just for clarity, did you let it finish ALL the way, meaning it wasn't showing "charging" anymore or did you stop it before that point?

Yes, I just left it plugged in till it said charge complete and then let it sit plugged in all night.

 

[derotam]

Yes, I just left it plugged in till it said charge complete and then let it sit plugged in all night.

Ok, just wanted to make sure you let it finish doing whatever thinking it was doing.

Other than that the only comment based on your thread title, is that like others, I don't necessarily think you have lost 10% for you to try and "recover". Only a nice long single drive can show for sure.

 

[voip-ninja]

voip, what firmware are you on? I wanted to wait a little while before saying anything to make sure it's consistent, but immediately after I installed 32.2.2, the reported range on my car went down by 6 or 7 miles at a 90% charge level. I've noticed this every single night for the last week and a half, and that includes after updating to 32.11.1 a couple of days ago. Prior to this change, the car consistently showed either 278 or 279 miles in the morning with every once in a while a 277 or 280. Now, it is consistently showing 271 or 272.

For the last 8 to 9 months, I've been charging up to 90% every night, and other than a road trip in June, my charging habits have been very consistent. I have 14,400 miles on the car now. I really think the change in reported range is related to the firmware since nothing else changed with my car or driving habits, and the decrease occurred immediately after updating the firmware. I don't think that was coincidence, and it is exceedingly unlikely that the batteries would have lost 2% of range overnight. I think Tesla change something in the way that they have the car reporting the range.

I know that this is far less than the difference you've noted, but maybe it's part of the reason.

Not sure but my range drop might coincide with new FW I installed a month or so ago.

I have since gotten a few more updates including the latest 32.11.1 version 10 update and the range has consistently been low.

It might be that Tesla has changed the way they do range calculations but it seems that some users are still showing "normal" range.

I've put in a "question" to Tesla with the owner's portal asking if they can give me a battery health report for my vehicle due to the large amount of range drop but they are blowing me off. Local SA who insisted I could reach out to him with any problems with my vehicle due to the numerous issues I have had with it related to rattles has also not responded.

At the end of the day this doesn't really affect my daily use, but I'm more concerned now about what my car will be worth in a few year's time and how this will impact my use over time when I would plan to use the car for longer trips.

 

[voip-ninja]

Ok, just wanted to make sure you let it finish doing whatever thinking it was doing.

Other than that the only comment based on your thread title, is that like others, I don't necessarily think you have lost 10% for you to try and "recover". Only a nice long single drive can show for sure.

Since the energy graph consistently shows my estimated range at even less than the display range I am left to conclude that the range loss in my car is real. Perhaps I have a pack that is affected with premature loss of some of the cells or something similar. Only Tesla knows and they aren't telling me anything.

 

[ngogas]

Yes software update has dropped mine the past few updates. I always charged to 90% but now only got 264. Prior I had 274.

 

[voip-ninja]

I fully charged my M3 last night (100%) just to check and it will only charge to 285 miles! This is not making me very happy.

See my thread, I have a similar reduction in range. I get 284 on a full charge and 250 and change on a 90% charge. Pretty substantial reduction in range for a car that's one year old, charged fairly regularly and only driven for 8,000 miles.

My expectations on pack longevity are based on Tesla's S and X which used older inferior battery tech and typically saw battery life degradation of around 5% in the first year and very slow degradation after that. Quite a few of those cars that are 4-5 years old or older still have pack life of better than 90% which is pretty much better than what I am seeing with my one year old car.

Disappointing.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Don’t worry guys, if 90% shows 150 miles still plan your 300 mile trip. It’s all about “energy consumed” WTF

 

[derotam]

Since the energy graph consistently shows my estimated range at even less than the display range I am left to conclude that the range loss in my car is real. Perhaps I have a pack that is affected with premature loss of some of the cells or something similar. Only Tesla knows and they aren't telling me anything.

The energy graph is only based on your last 5, 10, 30 miles. With a possible 10% loss you are going to have to do one long continuous drive of at least 90% to even have a chance of nailing the loss down as actual loss.

Edit, and if you think the range loss coincides with a FW update, then it is even more unlikely that it is REAL loss, unless you are suggesting that the FW bricked part of your pack.

 

[Maximilien]

Same here. I got Model 3 September last year (1 year of ownership) and the mileage capacity decreased from 279 miles (90%) to 265 miles (90%). I lost 14 miles already. Even for Model S and X, it was not that bad.

 

[Darthbenji]

On day two of ownership of a SR+ mine charged to 233 at 100%. To make matters worse driving a mile to Starbucks cost me 6 miles of range!!!!

 

[Trips]

2019.32.11.1 - Long Range Dual Motor: 100% charge says 285 miles vs 306 before. I'm going to run that down to zero today and see if that changes anything.