-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Range Reduced on Dual Motor Configs?
- Thread starter DJ Frustration
- Start date
I am going with three because Elon mention them during the D presentation. I did not see the car, so not 100% sure on whether it has three or two modes. Either way I really think that lower EPA range figure is for "INSANE" mode. The range for another mode (whether it is "NORMAL" or "SPORT") has to be higher, because acceleration is not a priority for this more "pedestrian" mode.
- - - Updated - - -
If my theory is indeed the correct one, I do not believe that EPA would go with the middle or average number. I think that their preoccupation is that number they show should be true regardless of what mode the car is in. Therefore they would insist IMO on the most conservative range number (for an "INSANE" mode) to be prominently displayed on the sticker.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
It would be great if this, or something close to this winds up being correct.
But this brings up an interesting point that I had not thought about in this way before.
I guess I had assumed that when we talked about the maximum range of the car, that was under best conditions, and with the car's HVAC's range mode on. Is this not the case? In other words, under best conditions, and with the HVAC's range mode on, is the range actually better than stated?
I do not know details about the EPA test, but am sure that all of these details, including the HVAC settings are prescribed. I do notice that when charging my car while in range mode I consistently get about 3 miles more of range. Charging to 90% I get 231 miles when range mode is of and 234 when it is on. It would be interesting to see what this difference is for a brand new car...
I agree with the others who posted here that the reduced miles makes little difference to my real world driving. I commute 10 miles round trip to work and drive maybe 100 miles at most on the weekends. If I take a trip it will be along the interstate and I will happily take a break every 2 hours and stop at a supercharger. A 20 minute break every 2 hour is a good thing with respect to safety and fatigue. Tesla seems to be putting the Superchargers along the interstates 2 hours apart. As long as I can drive 80 with the air conditioning on for two hours at a stretch while listening to music on my upgraded audio system I will be quite happy. I wish they would finish the I-10 stretch from Florida to Texas though as I have family all along that stretch and there are some big gaps that are over 300 miles. Our first trip will be in February from Tampa to Charleston as the necessary chargers are in place. That assumes that Vin 63966 arrives in late December as they are still stating on my Dashboard. Dr Ron
i generally agree with this, but there will be always situations when some extra range would be helpful...
BTW, regarding the fatigue, you will discover that Model S is an excellent car for long trips because driving it is significantly less tiring than for any other car. The combination of effortless immediately available power, quiet cabin, excellent cruise control (which works for any, even very hilly terrain) and one pedal driving all contribute to a more relaxed, less strained driving experience. Each of these things seem trivial, but taken together they do make a significant difference.
Last edited:
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I don't think any of us would be at all concerned about the range if we had the option of stopping at superchargers every two hours. But for some of us there are no superchargers yet any where along any of the routes we ever plan to travel. And I imagine that for a great number of us there are at least some routes with limited superchargers and gaps, like the one you reference between Florida and Texas.
That being said, now that the difference between the highway mileage and the local mileage impacts' on the EPA estimates have been clarified, I too am satisfied that Tesla did not mislead us with respect to the range. As others have pointed out, the EPA estimate for highway is actually better than before, and that's when we're most going to need the range.
dennis
Model S Plaid
Most ICE cars with automatic transmissions have a button to switch between Economy mode which provides better fuel economy and Sport mode which provides better acceleration. According to your theory, the EPA would require all ICE mpg numbers to be reported with the Sport mode setting. That is extremely unlikely IMO.
As others have said, the lower range reported for the P85D (in Normal mode) is because the heavier weight of the car yields worse range in the city driving portion of the EPA test.
If that were the case, why isn't it affecting the city/highway/combined numbers or the kWh per hundred miles?
To my mind, the fact that those have remained more or less unchanged (with minor differences that match our expectations,) while the all electric range number went down sharply is proof that the change we know the EPA mandated for the charge level is affecting the range number.
If something were actually affecting the car's efficiency, it would be reflected in the MPGe and kWh/mile numbers.
Walter
This seems like a reasonable explanation. Tesla needs to provide an official explanation, tho.
I disagree that the EPA is wrong for using the most conservative. Seems to be the most prudent thing
Up to individual mfgs to explain the caveats.
Take a look at this link. If it is correct, then it doesn't lend credence to your theory. http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/...ving-modes-affect-a-cars-epa-gas-mileage.html
Our range will be better on the highway, worse in town. Average will be the same. This is the perfect combination. We want range on the highway, and we want to kick ass in town. We get to have our cake AND eat it. :biggrin:
Perhaps we will find that Tesla has adjusted these estimates to more accurately reflect real world driving experiences as we have noted from our use!!
- - - Updated - - -
That said, Elon at the D release was very explicit that the dual motor configuration was 3% more efficient than the rear wheel drive version.
- - - Updated - - -
That said, Elon at the D release was very explicit that the dual motor configuration was 3% more efficient than the rear wheel drive version.
No, EPA changed the testing methodology since 2012. In 2012, the range was based on a 100% charge.
In 2013+, the range is based on a blend of once cycle at 100% charge, and a second cycle at 80% charge. So roughly speaking the EPA range dropped by about 10 percent just due to the difference in testing, even though MPGe remains unchanged.
Same thing happened to the Leaf:
2013 Nissan Leaf gets 75-mile range (actually 84) in new EPA test
Last year when Tesla firmware update changed from the two charging settings to having a slider, EPA continued to report range at 100% charge as there wasn't a second fixed setting to average it with as they did on the Leaf. Now the "slider loophole" to their changed methodology seems to have gone away. I doubt the average car shopper would know the EPA range number is the average of 100% and 80% charge, so it's really misleading to do that. I understand they want to report a lower number than 100%, as that is not a typical charge, but they should report range for both charges rather than a number that no one realizes is an average.
Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors shows the "at 65 mph" ranges for all models.
If the EPA quotes a range of 242 miles for the P85D, and it has the same actual range as a 265-mile Model S 85, I think Tesla should take action to avoid misunderstandings. For example:
| Model S | Range at 65 mph | EPA Range |
| 60 | 215 | 208 |
| 85 | 285 | 265 |
| 85D | 295 | N/A |
| P85D | 285 | 242? |
- Post "at 65 mph" ranges at the top to make comparison between models easy
- Make a blog post extolling the virtues of consistent range measurement
- Put information next to the EPA ranges in some fashion giving a brief explanation and a link to the blog post
Last edited:
ArtInCT
Always Learning
I find this thread very interesting... being a cautious type with new tech, I am not in the middle of the fray as many of you are
who are awaiting their new P85D... sooner vs later.
However, there were enough new tech variables in the P85D equation for me to hold off pulling the trigger for a while.
And not enough answers regarding my questions.... coupled with some limitations that I did not enjoy.... (Remember the Black Only Interior?)
that said, from what I gather there is a 15% reduction in distance with the P85D (if we can believe that window sticker)...
But... we do not know what "mode" or "modes" that reduction was calculated in.
In fact, until one of us takes delivery.... we do not know how many "modes" there really are... (although as a good listener I heard 3).
One word of advice for those of you who are just entering the 0-60 in 3 second area......
The stopping distance needed from 60 to zero is probably the same as the model S you are used to.....
So please please, leave enough runway to stop.... Know this from experience in the Cobra. A few close calls.... ahem.
(Come to think of it... this may be the reason WHY Tesla is limiting test drives in the P85D to "Rides")
who are awaiting their new P85D... sooner vs later.
However, there were enough new tech variables in the P85D equation for me to hold off pulling the trigger for a while.
And not enough answers regarding my questions.... coupled with some limitations that I did not enjoy.... (Remember the Black Only Interior?)
that said, from what I gather there is a 15% reduction in distance with the P85D (if we can believe that window sticker)...
But... we do not know what "mode" or "modes" that reduction was calculated in.
In fact, until one of us takes delivery.... we do not know how many "modes" there really are... (although as a good listener I heard 3).
One word of advice for those of you who are just entering the 0-60 in 3 second area......
The stopping distance needed from 60 to zero is probably the same as the model S you are used to.....
So please please, leave enough runway to stop.... Know this from experience in the Cobra. A few close calls.... ahem.
(Come to think of it... this may be the reason WHY Tesla is limiting test drives in the P85D to "Rides")
Last edited:
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
That's not new today, it's been there for several weeks if not almost a month. I don't recall the exact date but it was after Telsa dropped the 60D/colors/black roof. The range at 65mph has bounced around on the P85D as well.
Similar threads
