I recently upgraded my Model S from 60D to 75D. Prior to the upgrade, I was getting about 217 miles on a full charge. I wanted to see what the "real" full range of the battery would be post upgrade so I charged it completely. I was surprised to see that I was only getting 251 miles, which is only a gain of 34 miles. Tesla advertises that the net gain should be 41 miles. According to the service center, this is normal because the vehicle "reserves a little battery power" for mission critical functions. Therefore, my Model S would not charge to the full range. Since I have not seen that anywhere in the documentation, I don't believe it to be true. What do you think?
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How many miles do you have on your car? Degradation does occur...
My 2013 S85 had 265 when I picked it up and it charges to 253 now (max range charge).
steve841
Active Member
Let's just put it in perspective....
Did you get the EPA numbers on your ICE?
and ... depending on how you drive, the conditions, you very well could get the extra miles if you theoretically drove it to zero.
Basically ...Dont sweat it.
Did you get the EPA numbers on your ICE?
and ... depending on how you drive, the conditions, you very well could get the extra miles if you theoretically drove it to zero.
Basically ...Dont sweat it.
The other underwhelming difference in a pre-upgrade 60 and 75 is the charging rate at superchargers. Because the 60 was really a software limited 75, charging rate remains high with the 60's up to the software limited charge level. But with the 75, after charging to 60, the charging rate will slow down considerably at the superchargers. So even though you have the extra charge level, it will take a lot longer to fully charge to that level at a supercharger.
Thats like all Tesla's the supercharger is feeding the battery directly and balancing. Think of it like 1000 cups on a table at first you can just pour wildly into the cups, then you have to slow down to keep any 1 cup from overfilling.
My .02, but I understand your point. Did you pay the full 2k for the upgrade or did you get it at $500?
How exactly do you get it for $500? Or are you referring to the 70->75 upgrade and not the 60->75 upgrade?
If you read other post, you can tell why it's still not a good idea to unlock your range. It's just more money in Tesla's coffer and not tangible benefit to you other than the 75D badge.
Here is how you should look at it:
60D: 219 EPA range
You really have 197 miles because you never really run down to 0%. If you are good, you would leave 10% in the "battery."
75D: 259 EPA range
You really have 233 miles because of the same reason above. But wait! you really only charge to 90% full because the last 10% takes forever to fill up at supercharging and if you are charging at home, you probably will not wait for the 100% or won't do it daily because it will damage your battery. Guess what? Now you are going from 90%-10% SOC on the battery or 80% of the 75KWh battery or 80% of the EPA 259 miles. So your effective range is really 207 miles.
So as you can see in the 60D case, you can safely charge to 100% all the time and supercharging cuts off at 60KWh abruptly. So in short in the 60D case, you get to use 90% of the 219 miles vs 80% of the 259 miles in the 75D. That $2000 only got you a measly 10 miles additional in real case usage and a 75D badge. Kind of a high price cost to me if everything else stays the same. You are not charging faster or recovering miles faster in anyway.
So there you have it. If the cost was $500 for the 60D->75D, then I would say go for it. But if it's $2000, I would save that money and put it to better use and just drive a bit slower on road trip to compensate for the measly 10 miles.
Here is how you should look at it:
60D: 219 EPA range
You really have 197 miles because you never really run down to 0%. If you are good, you would leave 10% in the "battery."
75D: 259 EPA range
You really have 233 miles because of the same reason above. But wait! you really only charge to 90% full because the last 10% takes forever to fill up at supercharging and if you are charging at home, you probably will not wait for the 100% or won't do it daily because it will damage your battery. Guess what? Now you are going from 90%-10% SOC on the battery or 80% of the 75KWh battery or 80% of the EPA 259 miles. So your effective range is really 207 miles.
So as you can see in the 60D case, you can safely charge to 100% all the time and supercharging cuts off at 60KWh abruptly. So in short in the 60D case, you get to use 90% of the 219 miles vs 80% of the 259 miles in the 75D. That $2000 only got you a measly 10 miles additional in real case usage and a 75D badge. Kind of a high price cost to me if everything else stays the same. You are not charging faster or recovering miles faster in anyway.
So there you have it. If the cost was $500 for the 60D->75D, then I would say go for it. But if it's $2000, I would save that money and put it to better use and just drive a bit slower on road trip to compensate for the measly 10 miles.
I have 9980 miles on it and have owned it for a year. When it was limited to 60, I did notice about 3 miles of degradation.
The only way to measure the real range of your battery is to drive. Range can only be measured historically and applies to the circumstances under which those miles were covered. It is not possible for a vehicle to tell you how much range you can get in the future any more than a phone can tell you how many minutes it will last on the current state of charge. This was true of any gasoline vehicle you may have driven: it had a gas tank with a gauge that indicated the amount of gas.
I'm still trying to understand the phenomenon with Tesla vehicles (perhaps it happens with other electric vehicles) where people focus on future predicted range and ignore the actual charge percentage of the battery. I see it all over the place on this forum. Since I first started looking into purchasing a Tesla, I never thought of my battery capacity in "miles" and I can't imagine a scenario under which I would view my current battery capacity in something other than percentage. It doesn't make sense to me to consider capacity in a future indirect extrapolation. I think it would help a lot of people to look at their vehicle in terms of percentage charge, while keeping an eye on historical usage patterns.
I'm still trying to understand the phenomenon with Tesla vehicles (perhaps it happens with other electric vehicles) where people focus on future predicted range and ignore the actual charge percentage of the battery. I see it all over the place on this forum. Since I first started looking into purchasing a Tesla, I never thought of my battery capacity in "miles" and I can't imagine a scenario under which I would view my current battery capacity in something other than percentage. It doesn't make sense to me to consider capacity in a future indirect extrapolation. I think it would help a lot of people to look at their vehicle in terms of percentage charge, while keeping an eye on historical usage patterns.
I completely agree and that's how my wife and I drive and talk. However, this only works when everyone has a good understanding of the cars and batteries involved. 5% on an S is not 5% on an X. Likewise for a 60D v. 100D.
Tesla did not advertise a certain rated mileage increase when selling the upgrade on Mytesla. They simply said unlock the full 75Kwh battery.
The rated mileage you see advertised is rarely ever achieved, just like nobody ever gets the EPA rated range on ICE cars...
The rated mileage you see advertised is rarely ever achieved, just like nobody ever gets the EPA rated range on ICE cars...
Tesla, please stop making up specifications... | wk057's SkieNET...
- Original 60 - ~61 kWh total capacity, ~58.5 kWh usable.
- 85/P85/85D/P85D - ~81.5 kWh total capacity, ~77.5 kWh usable
- 90D/P90D - ~85.8 kWh total capacity, 81.8 kWh usable
- Original 70 - ~71.2 kWh total capacity, 68.8 kWh usable
- 75/75D - 75 kWh total capacity, 72.6 kWh usable
- Software limited 60/60D - 62.4 kWh usable
- Software limited 70/70D - 65.9 kWh usable
That said, Tesla did have wording to the effect of upgrading 60 kWh to 75 kWh.
We know by now that's not really true - and it explains the OP's info. Tesla has had an unfortunate tendendy of overinflating their high-end numbers and being overly pessimistic about their low-end numbers, assumedly to create more separation between the low and high ends.
This is just one more case in a very long list of Tesla being frugal with the truth.
Whew...at least I'm not the only one who thinks this way about capacity and range.
The thing that still confounds me is that the process is still the same as it has been for every other vehicle a Tesla owner previously drove. Sure, 5% is a different amount of range depending on the Tesla model and battery. This is no different than gasoline cars. 1/4 of a tank on a Honda Civic is different than 1/4 of a tank on a Honda Accord, which is different than 1/4 of a tank on a BMW 7 Series. Drivers had to gain the same familiarity with a vehicle and perform the same casual math. It's not any different, but it's as if people get in a Tesla and totally abandon that mindset. We're also not talking about smaller electric vehicles with capacities of 100 miles per charge or less. All Tesla vehicles have comparable magnitude capacity as gasoline vehicles.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory about it, nor am I suggesting it is "wrong" to think about a Tesla vehicle as a certain amount of predicted range based on present capacity, but that it seems to confuse and mislead people to switch to that mindset. Maybe it's because the default view in a Tesla is one of miles and people don't keep prior experience in mind. I'm definitely curious as to why people prefer to view capacity in "future miles" rather than current charge percentage, but that may warrant a separate thread.
jelloslug
Active Member
The theory is that you charge up to 100%, discharge as close to 0 as you can, and then charge back up very slowly.
whttiger25
Member
This seems reasonable as a combination of some degradation and the range algorithm uncertainty.
My pre refresh 90D was delivered with a 100% charge to 291-292 miles and 2400 miles on the odo. By 10000 miles it was getting 280. Most reports are that you see a chunk of "degradation" pretty quickly and then it slows down dramatically.
But as other have posted the range algorithm is also sometimes inaccurate. The true test of your battery is simply how far it will actually go before running out of juice.
I suggest switching to percentage on the range display and just moving on with your life as a tesla owner.
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