Bad move. That's what I did when I saw the FSD video and paid for EAP/FSD. I got royally screwed by Tesla's lies assuming at minimum the product I received would be equivalent to the AP1 car I test drove from delivery. Don't preorder anything. Wait until you test drive an actual L4/L5 car then order. It's worth waiting to prevent getting scammed by Tesla.
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Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD
- Thread starter AnxietyRanger
- Start date
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- Model S
Bad move. That's what I did when I saw the FSD video and paid for EAP/FSD. I got royally screwed by Tesla's lies assuming at minimum the product I received would be equivalent to the AP1 car I test drove from delivery. Don't preorder anything. Wait until you test drive an actual L4/L5 car then order. It's worth waiting to prevent getting scammed by Tesla.
You mean wait until you get test driven in an actual L4/L5 car.
8. Doors. I'm not formulating this too tightly, since this is a very speculative entry and mostly just small bits and bobs of rumor, speculation ald logic/lack thereof thrown together.
One thing that is IMO of interest are the button-operated Model 3 doors. I have not been able to find any proof that they'd be motorized and just disabled, but it would fit as an anti-sell to keep this feature away from Model 3 headlines until Model S gets it too...
And old post of mine rationalizing that Model 3 might have automatic doors, only disabled/hidden in software:
Model 3 and Model S doors are certainly a space to watch, if that FSD door-opening chauffeur magic is something Tesla believes in beyond PR videos. Also, there is the rumor of second-generation falcon wings and Model X facelift production code out in the wild...
p.s. Some discussion of this here: The HUD Case - Mockup of what could be
One thing that is IMO of interest are the button-operated Model 3 doors. I have not been able to find any proof that they'd be motorized and just disabled, but it would fit as an anti-sell to keep this feature away from Model 3 headlines until Model S gets it too...
And old post of mine rationalizing that Model 3 might have automatic doors, only disabled/hidden in software:
Model 3 and Model S doors are certainly a space to watch, if that FSD door-opening chauffeur magic is something Tesla believes in beyond PR videos. Also, there is the rumor of second-generation falcon wings and Model X facelift production code out in the wild...
p.s. Some discussion of this here: The HUD Case - Mockup of what could be
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The MX facelift internal model code was leaked in a phone app update, and then immediately removed in a quick following update. No corresponding S incremented model was in that app version.
Continuing this line of thought:
What Model X lacks completely are handles that allow pulling the door out, if needed. You just have the opening buttons. Model 3, on the other hand, has handles that can be used to pull out the door.
Could Tesla thus forgo the (potentially expensive?) additional mechanism in Model 3 that allows pushing out the door from its opening edge in the Model X and simply have the motor that moves the door on the other end... Any stuck doors would be handled by pulling the door handle. This could allow for much simpler automated doors...
This does not mean Model 3 necessarily has these mechanisms in place now (or, indeed, will ever get them), but just thinking out loud what the future solution for Model 3 (and why not Model S too) could be. Even a future potential upgraded Model S could still retain handles, because it doesn't have falcon wings to consider...
Be this as it may, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla is still hiding (even in software disabled state) something in those doors, akin to the dormant interior camera.
Why else have an electric door opening button in Model 3?
The Model 3 would be the workhorse of a possible 'Tesla Network'. However is having a complete automated experience really needed? Self-presenting doors seems like something only a premium taxi service will offer. The Model X would be perfect for that...
4. Big battery. Looking beyond current car features and firmware hacking, there is the rumor of 130 kWh battery being tested in Model S or X with the speculation following that 21-70 cells might fit in the current pack dimensions in that configuration (see. e.g. 200 kWh new Roadster in a Model 3 sized car). There was also the past-year incident of 75 kWh cars shipping with 85 kWh, which might point to a plan boosting Model S/X battery sizes in general. Given the Gigafactory woes related to Model 3 21-70 batteries, In a curious case of potential trolling, a "P100D" Model 3 also appeared on TeslaFi recently. In the end that was merely a human cock-up, reminding us to keep on our rumor-mongering toes.
5. Interior redesign/HUD. There is a rumor that a Model S/X interior redesign that will wow us will appear in Q2 unless delayed to Q3. Some Model 3 inspired design seems, including better interior storage and lighting seems expected, as well as the interior camera from Model 3. Also, in this and this thread I have presented the speculation why I think this interior update could include an augmented-reality heads-up display, given the history of Tesla's comments, augmented reality hires and business partnerships.
Any others I've missed/forgotten about?
I personally would like all of that to happen, but I'm not betting on a HUD anymore. I've been burned before...
130 kWh seems too high, but I do think there will be a battery upgrade. IMO getting the base Model S to 300 miles would really help when compared to the 3 LR, so maybe 85-90 kWh? To keep people buying the LR Model S they would of course need it to have more range, but 110-115 should be enough. 120 would also be cool, if they can get range above 400 miles. But I don't think it will be more than that.
I think the rumor was based on some 30% increase in energy claim. But even that claim had very little real info.
Judging from the progress in kWh, that Tesla has had before, I'd say 15 kWh would already be quite the leap. And even if more would be possible, there is really no good reason to go for more.
Sure 400 miles would be another benchmark, but as long as there isn't competition with more range, I'd say it would be wiser to keep some margin for future updates and to cash in on the cost savings.
The actual rumor was in the first message of this thread (link):
Rumored 130 kWh Model S in light of Roadster announcement
New wheels for Model S or a Model S or Model 3 mule testing something?
Model S spotted with Model 3 Wheels, AWD tested?
Model S spotted with Model 3 Wheels, AWD tested?
Wild completely unsubstantiated idea: In theory it also might be testing 21-70 battery on a Model S, if that causes some differences which require different wheels?
They may be switching to 5x114.3 bolt patterns on the S as was used on the Model 3. There are a lot more options available with that bolt pattern, it may simply bring down costs to have more suppliers available. I wouldn't mind if this was the case; I have a few dozen 5x114.3 wheels in my garage for racing that I would have tried on my S if they fit.
It would also make sense for deployment on any energy-intensive vehicles like pick-ups and semis where efficiency would be very helpful.
An update to the thread:
We have received some sad, but informative rumors recently of the rumored postponement of the Model S/X interior update - including some interesting rumors into the exterior changes that are upcoming: the 21-70 battery, Model 3 motors in Model S/X, new side mirrors and new tail-lights.
Could the new tail-lights signal a Model 3 like large charge port on Model S/X, possibly enabling CCS at least in Europe... maybe around the same time Model 3 deliveries start in Europe later this year? Could updated side mirrors align with the camera-based blind-spot detection that is coming with warning lights (or could they even add new front-corner seeing cameras for 360 degree parking views?)... or is mirror-less too soon?
Let the speculation continue!
My appreciation to @DocZ and @CraZ8 for bringing this rumor/information to us. I have no insight if these rumors can be trusted, of course, but they are interesting.
Comments:
There have been rumors of second-generation falcon wings as well as of a Model X facelift manufacturing code in a version of the Tesla mobile app. Whether or not these mean the same thing, is unknown. See e.g.:
It seems these could also align with the timeline here, but given Tesla's habit of piece-meal updates, a possible secong-gen falcon wing could appear at any time - or not appear at all. If there is anything to that rumor in the first place...
I agree the downgrade in headliner material is not indicative of interior improvements, quite the contrary, it is a change going to the wrong direction. What it may be telling of, though, is of is an anecdotal detail of the "production he**" that Tesla is in - and that speculatedly now, according to rumors, has delayed interior upgrades. It seems Model 3 may be, if the rumors are anywhere near correct, the reason why Model S/X updates may be delayed.
The rumor was Q2-Q3/2018, apparently now the new rumor is Q4/2018-Q1/2019. Rumor is Tesla has changed plans.
My speculation was earlier that if I was buying a new Model S/X, I'd wait until Q1/2018 to see what updates came. Here we are in Q1/2018 and I agree it is less likely by the day these big updates, at least, come in Q1 or Q2... Tesla's Gigafactory woes seem real and those seem bound to delay the 21-70 batteries on Model S/X too and now look like they may have affected other things as well... It is thus possible a lull is in process and that now could be a good time to buy today, if one does not wish to wait two or three quarters? Maybe you'd get the latest for a couple of quarters?
Of course the downside is, we're even more sure I guess (down to details) that a major upgrade to Model S/X is coming, probably within a year. Also, it is possible Tesla solves their Model 3 issues and the floodgates to Model S/X updates open too. A dangerous time to buy, at the very least, if these things matter to you.
I think the main idea here has been - and hopefully continues to be by folks - generating a running commentary on the best available data for current and prospetive Tesla owners. Any forward-looking data by nature is uncertain and always in flux. The only way to keep winning is to keep playing... or was it the only way to win is not to play?
Take care!
We have received some sad, but informative rumors recently of the rumored postponement of the Model S/X interior update - including some interesting rumors into the exterior changes that are upcoming: the 21-70 battery, Model 3 motors in Model S/X, new side mirrors and new tail-lights.
Could the new tail-lights signal a Model 3 like large charge port on Model S/X, possibly enabling CCS at least in Europe... maybe around the same time Model 3 deliveries start in Europe later this year? Could updated side mirrors align with the camera-based blind-spot detection that is coming with warning lights (or could they even add new front-corner seeing cameras for 360 degree parking views?)... or is mirror-less too soon?
Let the speculation continue!
My appreciation to @DocZ and @CraZ8 for bringing this rumor/information to us. I have no insight if these rumors can be trusted, of course, but they are interesting.
Comments:
AnxietyRanger said:
There have been rumors of second-generation falcon wings as well as of a Model X facelift manufacturing code in a version of the Tesla mobile app. Whether or not these mean the same thing, is unknown. See e.g.:
It seems these could also align with the timeline here, but given Tesla's habit of piece-meal updates, a possible secong-gen falcon wing could appear at any time - or not appear at all. If there is anything to that rumor in the first place...
I agree the downgrade in headliner material is not indicative of interior improvements, quite the contrary, it is a change going to the wrong direction. What it may be telling of, though, is of is an anecdotal detail of the "production he**" that Tesla is in - and that speculatedly now, according to rumors, has delayed interior upgrades. It seems Model 3 may be, if the rumors are anywhere near correct, the reason why Model S/X updates may be delayed.
The rumor was Q2-Q3/2018, apparently now the new rumor is Q4/2018-Q1/2019. Rumor is Tesla has changed plans.
My speculation was earlier that if I was buying a new Model S/X, I'd wait until Q1/2018 to see what updates came. Here we are in Q1/2018 and I agree it is less likely by the day these big updates, at least, come in Q1 or Q2... Tesla's Gigafactory woes seem real and those seem bound to delay the 21-70 batteries on Model S/X too and now look like they may have affected other things as well... It is thus possible a lull is in process and that now could be a good time to buy today, if one does not wish to wait two or three quarters? Maybe you'd get the latest for a couple of quarters?
Of course the downside is, we're even more sure I guess (down to details) that a major upgrade to Model S/X is coming, probably within a year. Also, it is possible Tesla solves their Model 3 issues and the floodgates to Model S/X updates open too. A dangerous time to buy, at the very least, if these things matter to you.
If you wish.
I think the main idea here has been - and hopefully continues to be by folks - generating a running commentary on the best available data for current and prospetive Tesla owners. Any forward-looking data by nature is uncertain and always in flux. The only way to keep winning is to keep playing... or was it the only way to win is not to play?
Take care!
Nosken
Active Member
Wouldn't that be a simple retrofit of the hub/rotor for the different bolt pattern? Unless there is a different offset also.
CraZ8
Member
Good summing up.An update to the thread:
We have received some sad, but informative rumors recently of the rumored postponement of the Model S/X interior update - including some interesting rumors into the exterior changes that are upcoming: the 21-70 battery, Model 3 motors in Model S/X, new side mirrors and new tail-lights.
Could the new tail-lights signal a Model 3 like large charge port on Model S/X, possibly enabling CCS at least in Europe... maybe around the same time Model 3 deliveries start in Europe later this year? Could updated side mirrors align with the camera-based blind-spot detection that is coming with warning lights (or could they even add new front-corner seeing cameras for 360 degree parking views?)... or is mirror-less too soon?
Let the speculation continue!
My appreciation to @DocZ and @CraZ8 for bringing this rumor/information to us. I have no insight if these rumors can be trusted, of course, but they are interesting.
Comments:
There have been rumors of second-generation falcon wings as well as of a Model X facelift manufacturing code in a version of the Tesla mobile app. Whether or not these mean the same thing, is unknown. See e.g.:
It seems these could also align with the timeline here, but given Tesla's habit of piece-meal updates, a possible secong-gen falcon wing could appear at any time - or not appear at all. If there is anything to that rumor in the first place...
I agree the downgrade in headliner material is not indicative of interior improvements, quite the contrary, it is a change going to the wrong direction. What it may be telling of, though, is of is an anecdotal detail of the "production he**" that Tesla is in - and that speculatedly now, according to rumors, has delayed interior upgrades. It seems Model 3 may be, if the rumors are anywhere near correct, the reason why Model S/X updates may be delayed.
The rumor was Q2-Q3/2018, apparently now the new rumor is Q4/2018-Q1/2019. Rumor is Tesla has changed plans.
My speculation was earlier that if I was buying a new Model S/X, I'd wait until Q1/2018 to see what updates came. Here we are in Q1/2018 and I agree it is less likely by the day these big updates, at least, come in Q1 or Q2... Tesla's Gigafactory woes seem real and those seem bound to delay the 21-70 batteries on Model S/X too and now look like they may have affected other things as well... It is thus possible a lull is in process and that now could be a good time to buy today, if one does not wish to wait two or three quarters? Maybe you'd get the latest for a couple of quarters?
Of course the downside is, we're even more sure I guess (down to details) that a major upgrade to Model S/X is coming, probably within a year. Also, it is possible Tesla solves their Model 3 issues and the floodgates to Model S/X updates open too. A dangerous time to buy, at the very least, if these things matter to you.
If you wish.
I think the main idea here has been - and hopefully continues to be by folks - generating a running commentary on the best available data for current and prospetive Tesla owners. Any forward-looking data by nature is uncertain and always in flux. The only way to keep winning is to keep playing... or was it the only way to win is not to play?
Take care!
Thank you @CraZ8. I really appreciate your note.
Has your source discussed the introduction of the interior camera in the Model S/X. Is that tied to the larger upgrade? I guess so far the assumption has been that Model S/X would get their own "sandwhich" when the CID is replaced, but who knows if these two are tied...
This Reddit post seems little discussed on TMC (unconfirmed of course if really even from a Model 3). It would suggest the camera connects to the APE (and not for example the CID/MCU):
SMILE!! I can confirm the camera inside your Model 3 cabin is a selfie cam! • r/teslamotors
The colors blue, purple, white, black do seem to match the Fakras seen on the APE portion of the Model 3 APE/MCU sandwhich (top left corner):
Tesla Model 3: first look at new dual computing platform Tesla developed for Autopilot and MCU
This of course missing from the old AP2 board below - unknown if AP2.5 board would have the connector. However what can be seen here is that the style of the Fakra parts on the lower edge at least does match with the alleged Model 3 selfie cam.
The Tesla / Mobileye story
Has your source discussed the introduction of the interior camera in the Model S/X. Is that tied to the larger upgrade? I guess so far the assumption has been that Model S/X would get their own "sandwhich" when the CID is replaced, but who knows if these two are tied...
This Reddit post seems little discussed on TMC (unconfirmed of course if really even from a Model 3). It would suggest the camera connects to the APE (and not for example the CID/MCU):
SMILE!! I can confirm the camera inside your Model 3 cabin is a selfie cam! • r/teslamotors
The colors blue, purple, white, black do seem to match the Fakras seen on the APE portion of the Model 3 APE/MCU sandwhich (top left corner):
Tesla Model 3: first look at new dual computing platform Tesla developed for Autopilot and MCU
This of course missing from the old AP2 board below - unknown if AP2.5 board would have the connector. However what can be seen here is that the style of the Fakra parts on the lower edge at least does match with the alleged Model 3 selfie cam.
The Tesla / Mobileye story