It's not unclear. If you drive a 2013-2020 Model S/X, you can get 200A. Everything else doesn't; there's no firmware shenanigans with this statement.
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Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter
- Thread starter Boeingpilot
- Start date
srs5694
Active Member
Your post was #817 to the thread, and much of this thread has dealt with changes over time. It's not really unclear if you read and process the entire thread, as I have; but that represents a big time investment, and if you just skim the thread or read a few posts, it won't be clear. As I understand it:
- The Setec adapter is limited to 200A and either 800V or 1,000V (I've seen both cited in official sources); but of course most Teslas have pack voltages somewhere between 350V and 400V, so the voltage limit isn't relevant to current cars.
- The Tesla Model 3/Y, and new Plaid-era S/X, impose their own 125A limit. This seems to be, essentially, a redundant limitation. (The Setec unit looks to the car like Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter, which has a built-in 125A limit. When using the CHAdeMO adapter, the amperage will be limited to the same value by both the car's firmware and the CHAdeMO adapter.) This results in a total charge limit of 125A x 400V = 50kW. (This will be a little higher on Plaid S/X, which have pack voltages slightly in excess of 400V, but I don't recall the precise value.)
- Older S/X vehicles' firmware do not impose the 125A limit, so the Setec adapter has a limit of 200A x 350V = 70kW or 200A x 400V = 80kW, depending on the car's pack voltage.
- There is an experimental firmware available that lifts the 125A limit on 3/Y vehicles. People are assuming that this is done by having the adapter pretend to be a Supercharger rather than a Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. This seems plausible, but I know of no evidence that this is what's actually happening. There are at least two public reports of this experimental firmware causing physical damage to cars, so most people here, myself included, have not tried it and do not recommend its use. This firmware is available from Setec by special request only; there's no public download link. This experimental firmware is not required to get amperages of 50-80kW on older S/X vehicles.
- In practice, the charge rate will be slightly lower than the 50kW - 80kW limits because of various inefficiencies. Also, the car will typically report slightly lower kW than the charge station because the car will apply some power to battery conditioning, air conditioning, etc. (The Tesla subtracts these out of its on-screen display when charging at Level 1, Level 2, or with an adapter.) In cold weather, the car might charge at ~10kW less than the nominal rate because of battery pre-conditioning, so the car will report a charge rate of under 40kW on a 3/Y. The adapter became available in North America in the winter, so many initial reviewers were puzzled and disappointed at having lost so much of the charge rate.
- Because the pack voltage varies with SoC, with higher voltage achieved with higher SoC, the charge rate will actually increase slightly as the car charges from a low SoC with either the Setec CCS or Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Charge tapering occurs when the car has reached a relatively high SoC with these adapters (something like 70%; I don't recall the precise value).
This is the part that I was unable to parse reading back through. Thanks for explicitly calling this out. It was unclear whether I needed to run custom firmware on the adapter to unlock 200A (in the right conditions) on my 2017 100D. This adapter will probably never see use on our Model 3.
Again, much appreciated. My adapter will be here on the 23rd.
Be sure and let us know how this item works for you. (good or bad)This is the part that I was unable to parse reading back through. Thanks for explicitly calling this out. It was unclear whether I needed to run custom firmware on the adapter to unlock 200A (in the right conditions) on my 2017 100D. This adapter will probably never see use on our Model 3.
Again, much appreciated. My adapter will be here on the 23rd.
I noticed it's $599 now, putting it at $200 more expensive than the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Since it isn't any faster than CHAdeMO on a 3/Y, the additional cost is hard to justify. The only real benefit is not having to rely on the sole CHAdeMO unit at Electrify America stations, which might be a good value proposition for some, but not for me.
That said, I purchased when it was pre-order at north of $600. Overpriced, yes. But for the handful of times I've needed it, priceless. Any I had to endure the first couple of months when it wouldn't work. Setec did a good job working with us early adopters getting the firmware up to snuff
200 amps is the industry standard limit for uncooled DC Fast Charge cables.
srs5694
Active Member
There is an advantage over CHAdeMO in that there are more locations
Where? Around here, there are no CCS-only stations except for the occasional Harley Davidson dealer with a nearly useless 24 kW CCS charger. Every major network in the USA has both CCS and CHAdeMO. In Canada, there are still more CHAdeMO than CCS locations, although it is starting to balance out.
(note that I already addressed the Electrify America sole CHAdeMO units in my previous post).
And there doesn't appear to be any sales tax when purchasing directly, which Amazon, at least in MA, levies. Not sure about import duties, though.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Note if item ships from Amazon (which it appears is so for this listing) it is typically free if your order is over $25. Also items fulfilled by Amazon typically have the same return policy (30 days no questions asked, although you may need to pay for return shipping in some cases, if you don't have drop off locations). The only issue is the Amazon listing is sold by "Wasserstein Home" which you would have to check if it's an authorized dealer just for support/warranty issues.
I ordered one directly from Lectron on Saturday, 7/17 and it's expected to be delivered tomorrow, Tuesday 7/20 via UPS. Interestingly, even though I ordered it directly from Lectron, the tracking info from UPS says "Amazon", sourced in Tracy, CA. Given that it cost $563.99 when ordered this way, versus the $637.49 from Amazon, it seems the better choice.
srs5694
Active Member
Hmmm.... For me, the Amazon listing is showing the price as $599.99. Are you a Prime member? (I am.) If we're both Prime members, this may be an example of Amazon fine-tuning prices to what they think the (potential) buyer will pay.
I am a Prime member and have an Amazon CC. It was $599.99 for me (well, less because paid mostly with points
)Mine is shipping from Stockton, CA, rather than Tracy...
Yes, I'm a Prime member also, but the MA sales tax (6.25%) added the rest of the cost....appears there was none charged on the directly-ordered version. I guess I'll have to declare "use tax" when I file our state tax return next year!
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
I was in the area of the BTC charger on EA that is close to my house. I tried to charge again using v150. I'm not sure what FW version I was on before- there's no way to check when it's fresh out of the box.
It exhibited the same behavior. I got it to negotiate with the car and the station would ask for payment, but every time I ran my credit card it would say declined (card is fine) and if I attempted to start charging through the app, it would just act like it was sending the request in the app but would never start on charging on my end. Eventually while trying to get payment authorized and charging started, I think the handshake would time-out and I would be forced to start the entire procedure over.
FYI for the group - Because of the above, I can't rely on the adapter as a core part of planning "road-trip" charging routes. Since I haven't had any luck on this charger, I'm basically treating the adapter as an emergency fall-back only (ie. Supercharger is full or down and I'm stuck with no other options)
It exhibited the same behavior. I got it to negotiate with the car and the station would ask for payment, but every time I ran my credit card it would say declined (card is fine) and if I attempted to start charging through the app, it would just act like it was sending the request in the app but would never start on charging on my end. Eventually while trying to get payment authorized and charging started, I think the handshake would time-out and I would be forced to start the entire procedure over.
FYI for the group - Because of the above, I can't rely on the adapter as a core part of planning "road-trip" charging routes. Since I haven't had any luck on this charger, I'm basically treating the adapter as an emergency fall-back only (ie. Supercharger is full or down and I'm stuck with no other options)
Last edited:
masotime
Member
It's probably v150 - I personally recommend using v14x - at least for me it worked more frequently with EA while maintaining compatibility with other CCS chargers from EVgo etc.
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