Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Keshk]

Imagine, we pick a date, all affected owners march their cars with signs (pay back my kW, Tesla steals my mileage and performance, etc..) in front of Fremont factory and local sale galleries. Doing this will gain publicity, local news, and impact on prospective buyers, as well as unaware affected owners.
I have three models S (2014 S85, 2014 P85, 2015 P85D), all capped and chargegated. I’m in SoCal, and willing to protest in Fremont to make an impact.

Sounds good idea. count me in

 

[iRia]

Did you try calling the number on the supercharger itself? I have done that at stations in very poor condition. With cords hanging over the charger because the clip to hang the plug is broken. One cord was laying in a water puddle on the ground. Gives potential customers a bad taste if they drive by and see that. It's as if tesla doesn't care. It was customer service that made tesla successful via word of mouth. I wonder what the opposite will do from the same group of people now that customer service has vaporized?

It’s sad that owners would treat the superchargers that way. Leaving it on the ground is the height of laziness. Some do the same thing with destination chargers. They just drop it on the ground when done. Disgusting.

 

[CSFTN]

Furthermore, because I will have to charge to 100% SOC (really 98%) for this drive and I am currently at a hotel in Mobile, AL, I will have to waste at least an hour at the Mobile supercharger Sunday morning to charge the car from approximately 90% SOC (which I will do Saturday evening) to the 98% SOC as I don’t want a fully charged battery sitting overnight. This is time that could be better spent driving, or relaxing at the destination.

Not sure if anyone else has already replied ....
Why would you do this? Far more time efficient to stay around the corner at the Hilton Garden Inn, plug in overnight, awaken to fully (or maybe 98%) charged battery and go.

 

[swegman]

Not sure if anyone else has already replied ....
Why would you do this? Far more time efficient to stay around the corner at the Hilton Garden Inn, plug in overnight, awaken to fully (or maybe 98%) charged battery and go.

I’ve been staying in a Marriott hotel in Mobile, AL the past week that is a few miles from the Tesla supercharger and am driving to Baton Rouge LA (about a 3 hour drive; 200 miles) and staying for a week at another Marriott hotel that is located close to the Baton Rouge supercharger.

I don’t need a full charge overnight to continue on my way. I do need the range back (about 30 miles) that Tesla took from my car with the forced software update so I can easily reach my destination without having to do an intermediate charging. Before the forced software update I could easily drive non-stop from Mobile to Baton Rouge. Now I will have to stop at an intermediate supercharger to charge, thus adding at least 45 minutes to the drive.

Also, I prefer Marriott hotels for the perks they give me (such as free room upgrades) as a titanium elite member.

 

[Leeboy22001]

There's a few owners of Model S in the TOG facebook group who are reporting they have seen a sudden range drop after the V10 update !

 

[Ferrycraigs]

The news isn't surprising. @DJRas filed a request for an investigation and the NHTSA has received the request, but hasn't yet decided to accept/deny it.

Anyone can request an investigation into anything. That in and of itself means nothing.

That was my immediate reaction. If Tesla can persuade the NHTSA that it is NOT a safety issue, that it is merely a warranty dodging scheme (as suggested by some on here), or that it is something else, then I would expect NHTSA to lose interest quite quickly. But on the upside, if they do lose interest that would point strongly to it not being a safety issue, and we may be safe from our cars turning into a

"burning, hurtling ball of death".

(Great phrase by the way)

 

[David99]

I noticed a new behavior that might be related. When starting to charge at a Supercharger (from a low level) the AC compressor will turn on and start cooling the battery. The battery sometimes has a temperature north of 50 Celsius. As the cooling is happening and the charge rate drops, so does the battery temperature. At about 60% the AC usually ramps down as the cooling needs are reduced. It might turn off altogether once the battery temper is low enough. The battery temperature is now as low as 37 Celsius. Charging continues without the AC doing much or any work. But, and that is new, once the battery reaches a specific voltage the AC will kick in again strong and cools the battery down more aggressive and brings it down to below 30 C. The point at which the AC kicks in is when the cells reach the constant voltage charge point. It's around 4.184 Volt.

'Constant voltage charge' is when the charger won't let the cell voltage rise any more. It will supply just enough power to keep the voltage. The battery is aprox at 88%. As the battery is getting closer to full the charge rate is continuously reduced to keep the voltage at this limit. It's the standard method how to charge Lithium batteries to 100 % without damaging them or causing them to catch on fire. In Tesla's case the cell voltage will eventually go up to 4.2 Volt when at 100%.

It seems once the voltage is at that level temperature is more critical and needs to be reduced. This is definitely a new thing. It did not do this all those years I had my car. It seems it's a new safety feature. Anyone else notice this?

 

[jkennebeck]

That was my immediate reaction. If Tesla can persuade the NHTSA that it is NOT a safety issue, that it is merely a warranty dodging scheme (as suggested by some on here), or that it is something else, then I would expect NHTSA to lose interest quite quickly. But on the upside, if they do lose interest that would point strongly to it not being a safety issue, and we may be safe from our cars turning into a

(Great phrase by the way)

Thanks! Can't take the credit though.
Courtesy of the Meatmen!
War of the Superbikes

 

[DJRas]

I returned yesterday from yet another business trip where I left my car at the airport for 5 days.
This time the vampire drain was grestly reduced.
I ONLY lost 22 miles over 5 days (from 180 miles RR to 158 miles)
August it was upwards of 8 miles per day.

Cooler temperatures here in Southern California could likely be the reason.

 

[Droschke]

I would like very much to know where is this figure of 2000 cars came from? No one would know that other than Tesla itself. Could this be a cover attempt, and the actual number is much greater?

I of course do not know how many, but reading other forums one will be surprised how many other owners have been hit by this forced cap than what's been reported on this thread. Like you said, only Tesla knows and they have not been talking.

 

[MikeBur]

Chiming in here with the caveat that I haven't read the prior 289 pages of this thread, so if I'm restating something that's been hashed and rehashed, please bear with me.

I have a 2015 P85 that had its battery replaced back in March/April of this year. The subsequent software update that is being discussed did nothing to reduce the car's range whatsoever. Is this because:

• It's just random chance that my range wasn't affected, or
  
• The fact that I had just obtained a new (refurbished) battery means that the software was written to take this into account and not reduce my range?

If it's the latter, is that evidence for/against the range reduction that folks are seeing being safety related? (IOW, if it's safety related due to a battery design flaw then it seems that I would be seeing a range reduction, too, no matter the total miles on my pack. I recognize that this argument is invalid if the safety issue comes about with age or mileage, however.)

Just wondering if my data point brings something new to the discussion.

Your battery was replaced. Moot point for you as tests to detect hw flaw were likely already in place.

 

[Droschke]

Your battery was replaced. Moot point for you as tests to detect hw flaw were likely already in place.

Not necessarily so. Some owners with the replacement packs have reported they got capped batteries!

 

[Droschke]

As it's been reported the NHTSA will evaluate the defect petition. Doesn't this point to the fact that Tesla has NOT reported it to the NHTSA all along? I believe Tesla have not as they never admitted this is a safety issue.

 

[DJRas]

As it's been reported the NHTSA will evaluate the defect petition. Doesn't this point to the fact that Tesla has NOT reported it to the NHTSA all along?

Yes, it was NOT reported to NHTSA.
I believe NTSB has investigated at least one of the garage or street fires not involving a crash.
Ed filed a FOIA request to get the report.

 

[MikeBur]

Not necessarily so. Some owners with the replacement packs have reported they got capped batteries!

Battery packs replaced after March this year have defect still? I didn’t see anyone state that, though if you say so I’ll believe it

 

[Droschke]

Yes, it was NOT reported to NHTSA.
I believe NTSB has investigated at least one of the garage or street fires not involving a crash.
Ed filed a FOIA request to get the report.

Correct. All Tesla has done is to disguise it as "protect", "prolong" distraction.

 

[MP3Mike]

Battery packs replaced after March this year have defect still? I didn’t see anyone state that, though if you say so I’ll believe it

It would seem that Tesla doesn't consider "it" a defect. Whatever "it" is.

 

[Droschke]

Battery packs replaced after March this year have defect still? I didn’t see anyone state that, though if you say so I’ll believe it

For example, just this past Tuesday. Read qwk's post starting here:

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

 

[jerry33]

I noticed a new behavior that might be related. When starting to charge at a Supercharger (from a low level) the AC compressor will turn on and start cooling the battery. The battery sometimes has a temperature north of 50 Celsius. As the cooling is happening and the charge rate drops, so does the battery temperature. At about 60% the AC usually ramps down as the cooling needs are reduced. It might turn off altogether once the battery temper is low enough. The battery temperature is now as low as 37 Celsius. Charging continues without the AC doing much or any work. But, and that is new, once the battery reaches a specific voltage the AC will kick in again strong and cools the battery down more aggressive and brings it down to below 30 C. The point at which the AC kicks in is when the cells reach the constant voltage charge point. It's around 4.184 Volt.

'Constant voltage charge' is when the charger won't let the cell voltage rise any more. It will supply just enough power to keep the voltage. The battery is aprox at 88%. As the battery is getting closer to full the charge rate is continuously reduced to keep the voltage at this limit. It's the standard method how to charge Lithium batteries to 100 % without damaging them or causing them to catch on fire. In Tesla's case the cell voltage will eventually go up to 4.2 Volt when at 100%.

It seems once the voltage is at that level temperature is more critical and needs to be reduced. This is definitely a new thing. It did not do this all those years I had my car. It seems it's a new safety feature. Anyone else notice this?

I’ve noticed that too. Range loss doesn’t appear to be a problem but charging rate at low SOC went from 120 kW this spring to 90 kW or less now. Charging time has doubled.

 

[Dax279]

Can’t believe I read and scanned through all 291 pages Decided to switch to scanning once I started to see a lot of tangents being brought in and also a lot of back and forth about nothing. Sure wish people would not have wasted people’s time with such ridiculousness

In any event, appreciate everyone’s efforts and information that was relevant to this topic!

I have a May 2015 85d with about 44,000km that went from 395km at 90% to 387 now (this was all after the May update that I think got to me closer to June). No where near as bad as others. Don’t know if I get throttled at SC as I don’t use them that often. Might need to go and take up a stall one weekend and test.

Again thanks to all those that have posted great and relevant information here and sure hope those that take away from the topic and think twice before they continue to waste people’s time and more importantly they stop trying to get on people’s nerves.