Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[glide]

How many times have you supercharged recently? My car is severely limited in charge speed, but 60 kW at 28% is too low. If this was a single incident it could have been a bad stall, a limited site, any kind of issue. If that's a regular thing, there is something wrong with your car.

I have supercharged several times in the last month in several states/chargers. All at the request of the Service Department.

Which, given that this issue has come to light, is all the more maddening. I feel like they were sending me on a wild goose chase the whole time.

 

[CuriousG]

Did you even read the words I wrote? You seem to be responding to something only vaguely related. Of course everything I wrote is exactly correct. Note, Lathrop not Livermore, etc.

I understood it perfectly. I'm not contesting that you're saying Lathrop is less than half the distance that Tracy is to Manteca. I'm using your own words against you "details matter" when you state that the 4 Superchargers near Dublin is closer to Tracy than Tracy is to Manteca. Judging from the dislikes, I think people agree how you stated it was wrong.

On another note, charged again today at 18% SOC. According to TeslaFi, started at 66kW charging rate and quickly moved to 60kW within 4 minutes. It thought the battery was at 18% when I arrived but when it started charging it stated 20%. Took 54 minutes to add 150 miles of range. So this charge got back another 2 miles and my net loss before battery reduction was introduced is now a net loss of 19 miles since 2019.16.x firmware.

 

[xbox4me62]

How many times have you supercharged recently? My car is severely limited in charge speed, but 60 kW at 28% is too low. If this was a single incident it could have been a bad stall, a limited site, any kind of issue. If that's a regular thing, there is something wrong with your car.

I haven't drained the battery down to 28% in a while but that's what I got today when testing at the service center and they insisted "we see no faults/errors".

Multiple times I've supercharged at 48-50% and it's pegged at 39kw, no more. Even my DCFC with the chademo adapter is capped at 37kw regardless of SoC. Before I would get 46kw max consistently.

When I mentioned the chademo adapter issue today they insisted "that's not our charger so we don't know what's happening." I had a leaf plug in right after me and they got the full 49kw right away on the chargepoint DCFC.

 

[bijan]

I haven't drained the battery down to 28% in a while but that's what I got today when testing at the service center and they insisted "we see no faults/errors".

Multiple times I've supercharged at 48-50% and it's pegged at 39kw, no more. Even my DCFC with the chademo adapter is capped at 37kw regardless of SoC. Before I would get 46kw max consistently.

When I mentioned the chademo adapter issue today they insisted "that's not our charger so we don't know what's happening." I had a leaf plug in right after me and they got the full 49kw right away on the chargepoint DCFC.

Chademo charger is limited to 125A times a voltage determined by the SOC. I wonder if they capped the current or the voltage. I'm guessing the voltage... It's the one kind of charging where rate increases with SOC (voltage goes up as SOC increases but at some point current falls and rate switches direction). At least up to a point. (At least this is the behavior on the model 3).

 

[omarsultan]

OK, a bit more detail on my scenario.

For the first ~3 years of ownership, I used to range charge to 100% about 6-8 times month and on those days, also Supercharge (typically from ~40% SOC to ~70% SOC). Last couple of years, as my job changed, I was down to range charging/supercharging ~3 times a month.

The thing is, both range and supercharging were fine (reasonable) until the evil update. Until recently my rated range at 100% SOC was ~248 (~6.5% loss) and still changed around 90-100 kW with a sufficiently low SoC. This was degradation from new that I was more than happy with--seemed reasonable and expected.

Post evil update, my range is 225 miles at 100%, and today, when I plugged into an unpaired charger after driving for a couple of hours with a SoC of 32%*, I got 65kW--took 45 min to get to 80% SoC.

*Interestingly, the charging screen on the MCU showed 32% while the IC and TeslaFi showed 35%--not sure what to make of that, might just be a UI glitch.

 

[David99]

I haven't drained the battery down to 28% in a while but that's what I got today when testing at the service center and they insisted "we see no faults/errors".

Multiple times I've supercharged at 48-50% and it's pegged at 39kw, no more. Even my DCFC with the chademo adapter is capped at 37kw regardless of SoC. Before I would get 46kw max consistently.

When I mentioned the chademo adapter issue today they insisted "that's not our charger so we don't know what's happening." I had a leaf plug in right after me and they got the full 49kw right away on the chargepoint DCFC.

The level of taking any opportunity to not look into an issue, dismiss evidence and calling everything 'fine' is getting beyond annoying with Tesla's service. Time and time again do I hear this from so many people after a service visit. Not accepting CAN bus data from their own car as fact. Every restriction, reduction and crippling done by software updates they just call 'normal behavior'. They really act like they still own the cars and we are barely allowed to drive them and of course pay for them.

 

[CuriousG]

Post evil update, my range is 225 miles at 100%, and today, when I plugged into an unpaired charger after driving for a couple of hours with a SoC of 32%*, I got 65kW--took 45 min to get to 80% SoC.

*Interestingly, the charging screen on the MCU showed 32% while the IC and TeslaFi showed 35%--not sure what to make of that, might just be a UI glitch.

This is very similar to what I reported 3 posts above yours. And we're neighbors by proxy. So much for this affecting a very small subset of cars.

 

[omarsultan]

This is very similar to what I reported 3 posts above yours. And we're neighbors by proxy. So much for this affecting a very small subset of cars.

Maybe its by ZIP code

 

[alloverx]

If the details never come out, will simply need to get some ex-Tesla employees to have a coffee or a drink to chat

Somebody coded an IF statement somewhere!

 

[CuriousG]

Maybe its by ZIP code

Or owning more than one so it's contagious! There are cancer clusters so what is the equivalent of Teslas that are affected by this called?

 

[Ulmo]

Maybe its by ZIP code

Actually, there seems to be a non-random chance of that: for instance, similar driving routes could cause some similar driving profiles (but not necessarily): Cold mornings, long legs at certain speeds at certain states of charge and temperature, certain SuperChargers, having heard of Tesla at about the same time or received delivery at about the same time, similar utility rate plans, etc. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find rare failures slightly bunched up.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

OK, the mileage on my 2015 P85 is 59.5k. After some variance, now calculating from most any charge percentage calculates to 236 mile projected at 100% (e.g. 50% is 118 miles)

I don't drive very many miles daily as I am retired and live in a very walkable urban neighborhood. I am now averaging about 6000/year with many of them recreational trips. I supercharge a lot proportionately, on trips of course, and conveniently when dining and shopping. That's why superchargers are hosted, no? I like to patronize that, and being retired it's convenient. How much I charge is situational. I used to set it to 90%, but now capped to 100%, and eat or shop until I'm done or the app says I'm almost finished charging, whichever comes first. If my charge state is high when I get home I tend to park outside my front door. When it's low I plug in round back under the solar carport. My car is always outdoors. We get pretty much the full variety of weather here in St. Louis.

My driving style also is rather random, depending on purpose, traffic, mood, what's playing on audio, weather, who's in the car with me and if there's a Corvette revving next to me at the stop light. I always win because I quit when I reach the speed limit. LOL

EDIT: Left out that original range was 265 and was showing 257 before the May update.

Interesting. I am also in the 50,000 mile bracket, actually knocking on the 60,000 bracket after 3.5 years. I have not made a note of other people’s mileage so I don’t know if all, most, some of us are over 50K miles.
I don’t Supercharger a lot, but I do DC charge a lot. (Tesla have claimed this is why I was capped!)
I don’t charge up to 100%
I don’t operate at a high SoC
I cannot think of any way in which I operate my car (useage) that would be the trigger.
I always come back to the 'why my car and not others' question. If capping were just good husbandry practice, why didn’t Tesla cap all pre facelifts? That they didn’t shouts at me that my battery is (our batteries are) in a different condition to those cars that have not been capped. I cannot create any scenario where that logic does not apply.

 

[Droschke]

I don’t Supercharger a lot, but I do DC charge a lot. (Tesla have claimed this is why I was capped!)

When was it that Tesla advised the owners that DC charging (Supercharging or CHAdeMO) was bad for the battery and should be avoided?

I never heard of such an advice from Tesla. In fact, both charging methods were sold as features which we paid for.

 

[Droschke]

A great thread with tremendous amount of information. Thanks to everyone for your contribution.

 

[55RD]

I filed 2 complaints with the NHTSA

11266876
11267646

Hope more people will file

 

[boywonder]

Repeated my 220 mile round trip today from last week in my 85D.
Left home with 80 miles, and stopped at the first supercharger 55 miles away.
Plugged in, KWH peaked at 126KWH (the highest I've ever seen) 12% SOC and stayed in the 91-82KWH range for a while. Took 25 minutes to add 100 miles of range, so not a lot slower than prior to the 2019.16.x updates, although I used to be able to add that kind of range in the same time from an initial higher SOC.
Next two charging sessions on the return leg were slower typically peaking at 90KWH and then reducing to 41KWH as the SOC reached 80%
The point is that I'm seeing completely different charging profiles even on the same journey with the only stops being the Superchargers.
Next time I do the journey I'll log proper values and show some graphs; I have a script that polls the car every 20 second during the charge session, but was too rushed to do it today.

(Edit: week ago not two weeks ago)

 

[boywonder]

The charge rate differences could be explained by the initial SOC:
Charge 1 arrival, 27 miles range left, 12% SOC
Charge 2 arrival, 39 miles of range left, 17% SOC
Charge 3 arrival, 77 miles of range left, 33% SOC
All based on 233 miles being my new max range at my "new" 100% SOC!

 

[Chaserr]

When was it that Tesla advised the owners that DC charging (Supercharging or CHAdeMO) was bad for the battery and should be avoided?

I never heard of such an advice from Tesla. In fact, both charging methods were sold as features which we paid for.

When Tesla throttled the 90 packs years ago, they did it because one of the initial people who discovered it (maybe THE original person to discover their hidden shenanigans) he was regularly charging at 50kW max Chademo at work. It wasn't fast charging, but it was DC charging and it counted towards an invisible counter they had in the car that would throttle based on how many times it was used. It didn't matter if it was 120kW or 1 kW, just that it was DC.

They never officially advertised that DC charging would damage their batteries - publicly they have said the opposite! - but internally it's clear they believe their batteries are damaged by DC charging of any sort over time. Their internal echo chamber probably reinforces this mantra, and maybe by now they've forgotten that they keep that information secret and are supposed to publicly tell people DC charging is perfectly fine.

 

[swegman]

I don’t see where DC charging vs AC charging makes a difference. There is a difference between 120 KW charging and 11 KW charging, but DC charging at 1 KW (bypassing the car’s charger) is no different from AC charging at 1 KW (where the car’s charger is used) and should not be counted by the “counter” referred to in the post above.

 

[jkennebeck]

Who cares what small means imo anything more than zero is not right. Why does it matter if affected only a small percentage, I don't get why this is ok if it's a small percentage as opposed to large percentage?

Jeffery Dahmer killed 17 people in the Milwaukee area. Milwaukee's population at the time was about 730,000. 0.0023% is a pretty small percentage. I wonder why he got 16 life sentences?

I think every data element supplied on this is useful. I am sure both sides are keeping an eye on this thread particularly among all those being watched for information. You can never know when we might get enough pieces assembled to reveal something significant. Tesla has the advantage of having the vast bulk of data but they are less than interested in sharing, any.

That's what discovery is for!

I had a leaf plug in right after me and they got the full 49kw right away on the chargepoint DCFC.

Tesla has truly jumped the shark if a Leaf can charge faster than our cars. Sad!