Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[BigNick]

That would not surprise me, as supply chain on the newer packs ramps up, I would expect reman packs get flushed out of the system. For me, maybe it was (bad) luck of the draw or that with 135K miles/6.5 years they did not want to invest in a newer pack, or they wanted to stick with a 400V pack since I have a P...?

I don’t think a 350V pack has enough voltage to push 1525A Ludicrous power without a staggering voltage drop, resulting in both reduced power and more/faster wear to the cells.

There is a reason there was never a P60, P70D, etc.

 

[JRP3]

Voltage doesn't produce the current, it's a factor of total pack size. A 350V 89kWh pack can produce more current than a 400V 81kWh pack. (254 ah vs 205 ah.)

 

[Chaserr]

@BigNick The 89kwh pack has more cells than our 400v 81kwh packs. Voltage is just a matter of arranging 14 25v modules together instead of 16 of them, but current is a separate matter and you can get as much or as little as you want as long as you feel safe with programming how much you need. The can pull more amps art the same C-rate simply because of the larger cell count, and if cooling is better (it should be) they can pull a lot more amps. The 16 module 400 volt version in 100kwh arrangement is capable of more than 1700 amps and that's more than our original 400 volt 16 module packs could ever accomplish!

An uncorked 75D actually is a "P75D" internally to Tesla, I saw someone post (probably a hacker) a config list that actually showed the "P75D" name used in their documentation, and it uses the same performance profile as a P85 despite being a 350v pack in the old 60kwh arrangement.

 

[joltheadq]

Drove last night in 37F and rode the at the very bottom of the SoC in order to arrive with 4-2% at SuC. Ramped up to 129kw and decreased rapidly. I the kw would suddenly dip by 15-20 kw and try to recover before BMS decided to disconnect. Giving the warning disconnect then reconnect SuC. It did this almost 10 times between 10-40%. Called service because I though I’d be stuck. Below 7% SoC my cell imbalance was 90mV and module 9 wants to stay cooked. Like the in/out temps are almost identical. Idk what’s going on with my pack. 1031043-00-E 2015 P85D. Feels like she’s starting to buckle. The trip computer est. range of 240 miles but according to the distance I’ve tracked it’s like 200 miles or less.

 

[tga]

The 16 module 400 volt version in 100kwh arrangement is capable of more than 1700 amps

And since current is constant at all points in a series circuit, there's 1700A runing through 14 modules; ie, a 14 module 89kWh pack could deliver 1700A.

 

[David99]

Here is my current battery report. I'm out of luck in terms of comparing it to the fleet as I have way more miles. So it is kind of pointless

One thing I find interesting is even after the software clipping, the battery is deteriorating faster than before. Range drops at a rate faster than through the entire life of the car.

 

[islandbayy]

View attachment 515247 Here is my current battery report. I'm out of luck in terms of comparing it to the fleet as I have way more miles. So it is kind of pointless

One thing I find interesting is even after the software clipping, the battery is deteriorating faster than before. Range drops at a rate faster than through the entire life of the car.

Damn! And I really wish we could have hooked up on your road trip through here :-( Thats Terrible, I can't believe they won't replace at this point!

 

[David99]

Voltage doesn't produce the current, it's a factor of total pack size. A 350V 89kWh pack can produce more current than a 400V 81kWh pack. (254 ah vs 205 ah.)

Ampere is taxed by ohmic losses. Voltage gives power free. So higher voltage and lower Ampere is alwasy better than lower voltage and higher Ampere even both have the same power mathematically.

 

[David99]

Damn! And I really wish we could have hooked up on your road trip through here :-( Thats Terrible, I can't believe they won't replace at this point!

Yes and that graph is even making it look better as it shows range at 100% but I can't charge to 100% any more. 95-97, that's it. So take off a few more miles. And, as I posted earlier, my car now shuts down at 5 miles left so going down to 10 miles (3%) is the absolute minimum I can go safely. So my real range is lower than the graph shows. Yet Tesla says my battery is all good. BS!

 

[qwk]

View attachment 515247 Here is my current battery report. I'm out of luck in terms of comparing it to the fleet as I have way more miles. So it is kind of pointless

One thing I find interesting is even after the software clipping, the battery is deteriorating faster than before. Range drops at a rate faster than through the entire life of the car.

Your battery is almost toast. It will be replacement time soon.

 

[David99]

Your battery is almost toast. It will be replacement time soon.

Can you talk to Tesla about that?

 

[Evoforce]

Been tracking this thread since it started, my battery was hit by the batterygate pretty bad, with a "full charge" which I never got even close of 217mi. In reality, the battery barely charges past 208mi.

Got the "Max battery charge level reduced" message a couple of weeks ago and finally got my car back with a replaced battery. The part# shows that the replacement is the 85kWh Tesla recently released, However, the range (~290 mi) is nowa lot better than the original one even when it was new.
View attachment 515042

Are you sure your represented miles are set to rated and not set to ideal?

 

[omarsultan]

One thing I find interesting is even after the software clipping, the battery is deteriorating faster than before. Range drops at a rate faster than through the entire life of the car.

I saw the same thing with my old pack, so maybe that's a precursor to finally going belly up and triggering a replacement.

 

[adriancraiovan]

I saw the same thing with my old pack, so maybe that's a precursor to finally going belly up and triggering a replacement.

Me to, saw the same range dropping faster than usual, and then, after about 2 months and 2-3000km, got the "Maximum battery charge level reduced". Now is in the process of changing the battery to Vienna.

2014 S85 530.000 km (~380.000 km with this battery) Range before message ~320km.

 

[Chaserr]

Are you sure your represented miles are set to rated and not set to ideal?

He has the new 89kWh pack - it's higher capacity than the old 90 pack so that range is probably real EPA... Ideal should be about 330 miles on this new pack.

 

[NoahX]

Are you sure your represented miles are set to rated and not set to ideal?

Yes, that was set as Rated.

 

[JRP3]

Ampere is taxed by ohmic losses. Voltage gives power free. So higher voltage and lower Ampere is alwasy better than lower voltage and higher Ampere even both have the same power mathematically.

Except in this case we are talking about an 89kWh pack vs an 81kWh pack. The larger pack can produce more power regardless of voltage.

 

[Chaserr]

He's right also, 350v will be a little less efficient and run a little warmer but assuming Tesla knows that (and they have to) they can easily plan for it and cool it well enough so the higher current doesn't cause any temperature issues. Certainly fewer problems than runaway thermal events that are waiting to happen in the packs they are now replacing. I'm gladdened to see them finally starting to use this pack as a batterygate fix, it means they are confident they have an actual fix finally.

400v is better than 350v and 700 or 800v is better still, but Tesla doesn't have the luxury of replacing the entire car's electrical system and 350/400v is all we can accept. 350v @ slightly higher amps can easily deliver our original performance with that nice 10% bump in range over original. All in legal standing as "equal or better than original" for both warranty and recall replacement code.

 

[NoahX]

During the picking up yesterday, I had one of the tech drove with me and we did several 0-60 testing, I have to say the acceleration is actually better than the loaner (12/13 S85) they gave me and doesn't seem that loaner is capped by the batterygate. Can't really tell if it's better than pre-batterygate, but at least didn't lose performance with 350v.

Another thing is the average Wh/mi with the new pack is slightly higher than the older one, around 400Wh/mi based on my ~40 miles of driving yesterday, but that could be because of the weather and elevation (45F, rain), will need more driving to get more data.

 

[Droschke]

During the picking up yesterday, I had one of the tech drove with me and we did several 0-60 testing, I have to say the acceleration is actually better than the loaner (12/13 S85) they gave me and doesn't seem that loaner is capped by the batterygate. Can't really tell if it's better than pre-batterygate, but at least didn't lose performance with 350v.

Another thing is the average Wh/mi with the new pack is slightly higher than the older one, around 400Wh/mi based on my ~40 miles of driving yesterday, but that could be because of the weather and elevation (45F, rain), will need more driving to get more data.

Did the SC techs know this is a new battery config possibly aimed at the failed capped cars?