Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[NSX1992]

So Tesla bend you over and have their way with you with an SW update and you decide to sell with a loss and buy a new car from them straight away? I don't really understand the reasoning behind this.

Because I could not resist the free $20,000 Ludicrous offer for existing owners. Plus I enjoy drag racing and can't wait for a 10 second 1/4 mile and beat all the stock cars. Assuming my small mutual fund sale is completed by Wednesday morning I plan to pick up my Raven and go drag racing the 1/8 mile Thursday and be below 7 seconds.

I am a fan of Tesla and have had a great experience with service. If I had lost power which I did not based on my drag times after the update I would have been extremely upset. I fully support the complaints and Tesla is wrong. But the fact remains no other car has the power, range, superchargers and good looks. Plus a 345-mile range (while it lasts) sure beats 209.

 

[Muffinman]

Our 2013 P85 was impacted by supercharger speed reduction around 30-40%, but the full pack capacity was available when checking a couple of weeks ago. Cells charged all the way up to 4,2v

Until now.

Yesterday i charged fullly up before a long trip, and cells would not go above 4,16v Today, after last nights charge to 80%, more than a full kWh of nominal full pack capacity has been made unavailable. I fear this is only the start, and needless to say I am not happy about it.

We have two Model S, and this would seriously impact the resale value of our vehicles. With two cars it probably would add up to a significant amount of money for us, so Tesla need to make this right. Otherwise i am inclined to take this all the way.

 

[rootandy]

Is there any chance that one of the updates changed the nominal pack value reported by the BMS to not include the reserve, and Scan My Tesla is still taking 4kwh off to compute it's usable remaining value?

It just seem odd that the nominal pack divided by the rated range is almost exactly 295.

Yes and no: Some cars got a "buffer upgrade" to 5kWh (and smaller battery packs, like the 60 has smaller buffers) - but afaik SMT is taking this into account and the buffer of the 85s is not changed.

 

[Lukez]

Here is the data

Nope... that is purely coincidental.
If you look at the red column of calculated data you see the results including the 4kWh buffer. The Wh/mi diverges from 295 to 325 by 30% SoC.
But, 276 is constant through all SoC.

Ah OK I was using the nominal value, not usable. Seemed wrong to be using usable to me, but looking at your data set it looks like the right way to get a constant.
Looking at your previous post using original 265 miles and 295 constant getting 78kwh makes sense that it was usable battery at new also.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Umm, apparently other manufacturers don't think that is scandalous:

"When he was taking delivery of the vehicle, Shah noticed that the I-PACE was only showing 201 miles of range despite the battery being at 100%. Jaguar informed Shah that the range in the vehicle was “adaptive,” and that it would update over time as the crossover gets driven. Over the next 24 hours, the new EV owner drove his I-PACE, and it quickly became evident that the 201-mile range quoted in the vehicle during delivery might even be optimistic."

Needless to say this gentlemen never saw more than 201 miles range. Who knows what "adaptive" means, but I get the feeling all manufacturers are learning as they go adjusting just about everything.

Jaguar I-PACE buyer shares ownership experience: range issues, regrets, Teslas, and why EV training matters

Jag didn't lower the charge window, and recalculate on lower Wh/mile. They employ an adaptive calculation, like Chevrolet. Their cars have "X" real-world range, which owners are discovering and which nobody is accusing them of lowering. Also, Jag doesn't have a new I-Pace it would like existing I-Pace owners to trade in for. They don't even have that "OTA works for us" conflict of interest, yet.

Having gaps between EPA and real-world is nothing like reaching into older customer cars and lowering the charge window (a ~tenth of a volt, or whatever the average loss reported, here). The full DOD window is only ~3.6, to 4.2V, or so.

 

[gmo43]

Anyone had an update with their NCDS filed report besides the email we have seen on here?

 

[faughtz]

My claim was accepted; I’m awaiting a date and time for the hearing.

 

[faughtz]

View attachment 427758 Interesting, back on original level.

Mind you though that in my case the range loss happened with the fw update at SC when they did a warranty hv battery replacement (refurbished).

Since the warranty repair I have been driving very carefully with a spare tire (destroyed 21” alloy wheel and waiting a replacement) and mainly charging at 8A rate (max at summer house).

So dont know if its because of new battery got adjusted to warranty battery of because of my user profile change.

Why was your battery replaced?

 

[Oldschool496]

Just for reference, now down to 355km. A total loss of 45km of full range in 4 weeks.

Without going through this whole thread, did they ever test your battery? If so, what was the result?

 

[Zarwin]

Not exactly the way to calculate what the car is using. There are additional current draws durinv charging that may otherwise raise the Wh/mi.
I use a CANBUS scanner to read the car's battery and use the rated mikes by the kWh usable. For all State of Charge on all cars that I have seen data from show this changed constant (though it may have occurred prior to 2019.16.1.1).

I feel pretty certain that my constant has not changed. If it has, the older charges back from 2017 would show a different number but they are all violently consistent. Here are three charges on three different version from 2017 using the same API values pulled via TeslaFi.

Again for reference, Gen 1 S85, March 2014 build. D battery pack. Have not seen mileage drop beyond slow normal degradation. Last 100% charge (on version 2019.16.2) was to 250 RM.

 

[liuping]

Nope... that is purely coincidental.
If you look at the red column of calculated data you see the results including the 4kWh buffer. The Wh/mi diverges from 295 to 325 by 30% SoC.
But, 276 is constant through all SoC.

Do the Rated Range numbers in your table match what is on the Tesla screen for RM? Maybe Scan My Tesla is using 275 to generate those values?

I don't have Scan My Telsa, but I do have TM-Spy setup. The battery "remain" value / 295 gives the rated range on the Tesla's dash Display and Tesla App. I have not tried it at all SOCs, but it holds true at 100% charge, 90% change, 80% charge and 74.2% (this morning's charge my latest scan).

As a side note, I've noticed the Pack values can range quite a bit day to day. from 75.0 kWh to 75.9kWh. It seems to vary If scan right after charging, if I have the climate AC or heat running or if I've been driving a while before scanning. It's probably important to take reading in the same condition every time to reliably determine actual degradation, etc.

 

[ran349]

I am quite certain that it did change. I just dont have pre update data to prove WHEN it happened.

Until you can show old data that supports your claim that they changed the rated constant from 295 to 276, then it's just speculation on your part.

 

[Droschke]

Without going through this whole thread, did they ever test your battery? If so, what was the result?

No cheating, you need to read the whole thread, all 67 pages

 

[PetriKarj]

Why was your battery replaced?

The reason was not specifically stated ny Tesla but based on teslafi logs my main battery voltage started to vary a lot and ultimately went down to zero - all this in a few hours after a normal ride and without connecting to charger. At the end the car did not start and after calling to road assistance a tow truck appeared.

At that moment the car had appr 40000kms (30k miles) in clock and virtually never supercharged.

——

As the warranty replacement was a refurbished one, therefore its possible that the faulty battery diagnosis caused my initial range drop of 10-12% and it took some time for the new battery to be diagnosed being ok.

Now living at the edge - will the restored range stay or will it disappear in time again ???

 

[Lukez]

I wonder if I'm at a start of the range reduction. Haven't noticed anything weird previously but today I had a long drive between superchargers and ran the battery down to 8%. I noticed that my taper is faster (same software versions I haven't updated in months), and since I needed a full charge to make the next supercharger I let it go all the way. Charge completed at 95%.
I logged the whole session and the short drive after with scan my Tesla but no change in nominal and usable yet.
Will keep logging and update if I see a change in capacity.

 

[Dutchmeeuw]

Without going through this whole thread, did they ever test your battery? If so, what was the result?

They did test it and according to Tesla the battery is fine. I asked about the voltage limitation and the response was the battery had passed all possible battery tests they performed so there is no problem. I discussed this issue for over 2 hours on the phone but got nowhere...

Selling the car...

 

[dubzz24]

I upgraded from 2019.16 to 2019.20 last week and have no range / capacity loss as of yet. Took a 500 mile trip this past weekend with 2 supercharger stops and a couple destination chargers. One supercharger stop was from 17-70% and added 40.31 kWh. 40.31/0.53 = ~76 usable kWh. Other stop was 14-82% and added 52.33 kWh. 52.33/0.68 = ~77 usable kWh. According to TeslaFi battery report, my estimated 100% range hovers between 396-398 km.

2014 P85D, 75k km, battery part # 1031043-00-E which sounds like it's likely original.

Is this only affecting specific battery part numbers?

 

[lightningltd]

I upgraded from 2019.16 to 2019.20 last week and have no range / capacity loss as of yet. Took a 500 mile trip this past weekend with 2 supercharger stops and a couple destination chargers. One supercharger stop was from 17-70% and added 40.31 kWh. 40.31/0.53 = ~76 usable kWh. Other stop was 14-82% and added 52.33 kWh. 52.33/0.68 = ~77 usable kWh. According to TeslaFi battery report, my estimated 100% range hovers between 396-398 km.

2014 P85D, 75k km, battery part # 1031043-00-E which sounds like it's likely original.

Is this only affecting specific battery part numbers?

Jury is still out on this one. According to the Google sheet, I see it affecting revisions from B to E.
Wish I knew WHAT it is detecting that makes it take my battery away, but Tesla is still silent on the issue

And by the way, I would LOVE to find out where they are getting the '231' miles average left on batteries of my battery's age and mileage. I would think that if that were the average for 85kw batteries, SOMEONE would have said something in this forum long ago. Of course, the information on WHAT average they are using is secret squirrel stuff. Are they averaging ALL batteries from that age range including the 60kw ones and skewing the numbers? Are they using RATED range? They will not say. Their silence is deafening.

 

[ran349]

Anyone have a recommendation for the best bluetooth adapter for TM-spy that is compatible with an iphone 6? I just realized the one I bought is not compatible with my phone. I don't want to make that mistake again!

 

[sorka]

Good afternoon Mr. yuyyy I just wanted let you know that I have performed a second review of your battery capacity concern. As you have experienced a decrease of capacity since resent firmware it is all due to an updated profile that Tesla has determined to be a better operating range for your battery pack. This update is to promote a longer life span of you high voltage battery in the future. As any components in the vehicle, the HV battery as a whole and its internal components wear as it accumulates charge cycles and drive cycles. There an establish fact that all lithium batteries loose capacity over time. That being said, the profile Tesla has added to is to prevent future big drops in capacity or damage to battery cells. Why some vehicle are effected more than others? There are many factors that contribute such as age, charge and discharge cycles, operating temperatures over time and many others. Rest assure that Tesla will continue to improve the product and give you what is best for your current battery, as to the normal wear and decrease in capacity it is expected over time. Please feel free to reach out and ask any other questions you may have. Thank you.

Not even a blurb in there on safety? Basically they're just telling you that they're capping your range to make the battery last longer. Charging in a more narrow range of capacity always makes the battery last longer and Tesla advises charging to 100% very often otherwise your battery would degrade.

But that was ALWAYS the car owners choice before. If they want to degrade their battery fast by charging high, it's their choice. The situation might be that they need that range and are willing to let the battery degrade, and then either by a new battery or upgrade their car.

If what the foreman said was true, then why not cap everyone's battery and why not do it from the very beginning. It doesn't track. The public statements from tesla about the battery update preventing combustion makes far more sense, but if true warrants a recall. It's insane to try and bandaid a battery battery that might catch fire with a software patch.