Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[mjmiron]

The "sudden" language might be why they try to hide the software reductions by spreading them out over weeks of simulated "gradual decrease." Has anyone had the full ~20% decrease overnight? Everyone's experiences seem to follow the same general plot of several weeks of steadily dropping pack voltage. This seemed intentional to me from the very beginning - they tried to hide the losses, and maybe wanted to claim the programmed decline is "gradual" by design to make it sound like degradation to a judge.

Mine was overnight 30 miles lost

 

[DJRas]

The "sudden" language might be why they try to hide the software reductions by spreading them out over weeks of simulated "gradual decrease." Has anyone had the full ~20% decrease overnight? Everyone's experiences seem to follow the same general plot of several weeks of steadily dropping pack voltage. This seemed intentional to me from the very beginning - they tried to hide the losses, and maybe wanted to claim the programmed decline is "gradual" by design to make it sound like degradation to a judge.

This graphically shows the difference between gradual over time and otherwise.

 

[DaveBC]

Thanks. I got an OBDLink LX from Amazon, and a cable from Maxwell Auto Tech. Works great with Scan My Tesla and TM-Spy

Does anyone know of software that will work with the Gridconnect USB to CAN adaptor and breakout harness that authorized collision repair shops use? I will have access to that later today. I could potentially use Tesla Toolbox too, but might need to request an auth token and would rather not.

Do I need to measure my pack/cell voltages at 100% SOC to know if I'm capped? Can I extrapolate the charge curve between 3v and 4.2v to 90% or whatever I'm at?

 

[Droschke]

"or due to or resulting from Battery usage" whether gradual, or sudden, or over time, or not over time (whatever that is).

You think a deliberate and sudden capacity cap qualifies as "due to or resulting from Battery usage"?

 

[Robbie]

Does anyone know of software that will work with the Gridconnect USB to CAN adaptor and breakout harness that authorized collision repair shops use? I will have access to that later today. I could potentially use Tesla Toolbox too, but might need to request an auth token and would rather not.

Do I need to measure my pack/cell voltages at 100% SOC to know if I'm capped? Can I extrapolate the charge curve between 3v and 4.2v to 90% or whatever I'm at?

On my 2015 S 85 here is the BMS data from Scan My Tesla at very close to 100% charge. The most I ever see these days is 4.07v. My Nominal full pack in the battery data is 63.8 kWh.

 

[Droschke]

The "sudden" language might be why they try to hide the software reductions by spreading them out over weeks of simulated "gradual decrease." Has anyone had the full ~20% decrease overnight? Everyone's experiences seem to follow the same general plot of several weeks of steadily dropping pack voltage. This seemed intentional to me from the very beginning - they tried to hide the losses, and maybe wanted to claim the programmed decline is "gradual" by design to make it sound like degradation to a judge.

My capacity loss was over night, no gradual loss by ant means.

 

[gmo43]

Yes, this is mine!

By any chance do you know how this will effect the rest of us ? If judge says Tesla was wrong and needs to do something about the battery issue.

Do they just pay us or make things right and fix our batteries?

If some of us have complaints with states attorneys and NCDS will it help us or hurt us?

 

[IngTH]

Actually partly it does, because if one cell has lower capacity or higher IR than others the brick voltage will rise faster at charging and reach the termination voltage earlier, and will also fall faster and cause shutdown earlier.

Even if the bond wire fuse of one cell would be broken the resulting difference in brick voltage while SUC charging is max. 2,5mV, so within measurement accuracy.

I considered the theory of extremely unbalanced bricks as well, but the reason (fire incidents) and the actions (reducing EOCV, changing charging strategy and thermal management) are favouring my theory of Li-plating.

 

[Robbie]

Even if the bond wire fuse of one cell would be broken the resulting difference in brick voltage while SUC charging is max. 2,5mV, so within measurement accuracy.

I considered the theory of extremely unbalanced bricks as well, but the reason (fire incidents) and the actions (reducing EOCV, changing charging strategy and thermal management) are favouring my theory of Li-plating.

I think my battery pack is pretty balanced based on the BMS data I get and I still lost 30 miles and am limited to 4.07v max.

 

[IngTH]

I think my battery pack is pretty balanced based on the BMS data I get and I still lost 30 miles and am limited to 4.07v max

Exact! But i'm sure even if Li-plating is the main reason for the actions, we will never hear this word from official Tesla spokesmen!

 

[bhzmark]

This graphically shows the difference between gradual over time and otherwise. View attachment 439165

Seems to plot you back down to exactly the Teslafi gradual dotted line slope. And previously the software was (incorrectly? artificially?) keeping you well above the gradual dotted line slope. Interesting.

EDIT TO ADD: MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT LINE IS

 

[fbitz777]

By any chance do you know how this will effect the rest of us ? If judge says Tesla was wrong and needs to do something about the battery issue.

Do they just pay us or make things right and fix our batteries?

If some of us have complaints with states attorneys and NCDS will it help us or hurt us?

Best is to join the class action; I think you just contact legal firm to do so?

Last class action got me about 150$ for Autopilot AP2 delays

 

[MP3Mike]

You think a deliberate and sudden capacity cap qualifies as "due to or resulting from Battery usage"?

If the capacity cap is implemented because of it now detecting an issue resulting from usage, then yes.

 

[jerry33]

Seems to plot you back down to exactly the Teslafi gradual dotted line slope. And previously the software was (incorrectly? artificially?) keeping you well above the gradual dotted line slope. Interesting.

Especially because the graph doesn't start at zero, which would paint a different picture than the one shown. I can't read the numbers, but it appears to be about a 7% total loss over 130K miles and 6.5 years.

 

[MP3Mike]

By any chance do you know how this will effect the rest of us ? If judge says Tesla was wrong and needs to do something about the battery issue.

Do they just pay us or make things right and fix our batteries?

If some of us have complaints with states attorneys and NCDS will it help us or hurt us?

Best is to join the class action; I think you just contact legal firm to do so?

Normally with class action suits everyone is automatically included, and you would have to ask to be excluded if you didn't want to accept the outcome. (Either settlement or court ruling.)

Of course, that is after the suit is certified as a class action.

 

[MP3Mike]

This graphically shows the difference between gradual over time and otherwise. View attachment 439165

Especially because the graph doesn't start at zero, which would paint a different picture than the one shown. I can't read the numbers, but it appears to be about a 7% total loss over 130K miles and 6.5 years.

Here is the result of someone taking the data from that chart and fixing it to have a 0 starting point:

 

[lightningltd]

Yes, this is mine!

Loved the dog mode line

 

[lightningltd]

The "sudden" language might be why they try to hide the software reductions by spreading them out over weeks of simulated "gradual decrease." Has anyone had the full ~20% decrease overnight? Everyone's experiences seem to follow the same general plot of several weeks of steadily dropping pack voltage. This seemed intentional to me from the very beginning - they tried to hide the losses, and maybe wanted to claim the programmed decline is "gradual" by design to make it sound like degradation to a judge.

My loss was all at once right after the update

 

[Droschke]

If the capacity cap is implemented because of it now detecting an issue resulting from usage, then yes.

Thanks.

BTW, I'm starting to see a pattern here, even though might be by pure coincidence. And, please don't think it too seriously, but when I reply to @bhzmark, I get a response from @MP3Mike and when I reply to @MP3Mike, shortly after @bhzmark answers back. I'm beginning to think that @MP3Mike and @bhzmark might be the same person

Good teamwork guys!

 

[Guillaume]

Seems to plot you back down to exactly the Teslafi gradual dotted line slope. And previously the software was (incorrectly? artificially?) keeping you well above the gradual dotted line slope. Interesting.

The dotted line is drawn between the starting value and the most recent data point. Nothing more and nothing less.

My TeslaFi battery degradation chart looks like this. All values in km, not miles.