Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Ferrycraigs]

I think this is a CYA to say "all customers have regained from what got reduced"

CYA? That’s a new one on me. I need to get out of the cave more.

 

[scottm]

This is a normal situation.

Here's a normal curve...

And some cars (beyond 3 sigma, probably) are having some issues. They just will, there's no way around this.

Tesla is trying play with finding the right sigma to capture with the new charging and capacity parameters.

 

[Droschke]

@dfwatt

I pointed you to the post you apparently had misread, so you can read again and correct your erroneous claim. You came back and still disagree that our cars have no Sanyo 18650 cells. Besides the post that you are misreading, can you provide another source/link that states the Tesla batteries have ever been shipped with the Sanyo 18650 cells?

 

[VT_EE]

Tesla advertises as much themselves. Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program

Battery Warranty

The battery pack in your car is obviously very important and expensive to replace. In developing the Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.

Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.​

Tesla officially advertised this. They still are advertising this. If this is a BMS failure, they are not fixing it with "an energy capacity equal to or better than the original" - they are doing the opposite in fact by intentionally downgrading the original to less than was sold originally to cover up their own failures. They tell us this is not our fault - it is theirs - and they are stealing from us while going against their own promises making them liars and false advertisers.

Remember when the Model 3 was EPA rated at 335 miles and Tesla asked them to intentionally lower it to 310? And then they slightly increased it to 320 again? That seems eerily similar to what they are doing to us, except they sold us the official EPA number and are trying to impose the limit post-sale.

That only applies to the M3 LR RWD. They upped the range to 325 after the fact, which I can easily achieve at highway speed in warm weather (even though the “rated range never goes higher than 318). They did this by lowering the wh/mi multiplier. In reality this means nothing. The AWD version barely gets the advertised 310. The performance versions have a hard time getting 310 EPA range at all due to the sticky tires.

 

[MikeyC]

If it's a safety concern they must inform the proper authorities and issue a recall. This isn't an annoyance it's a criminal matter of theft and you're suggesting it's a larger criminal matter of safety. Recalls can't be avoided by hiding them and this "fix" will miss a lot of cars. How many people will willingly update knowing what we know?

That was my concern when I first found this thread since I'm saving up for a Model 3. One could view this as a safety issue where the fix is to remotely remove (via software) some "feature" of the vehicle rather than actually fixing it. Is that legal?

Mike

 

[mymagiccarpet]

BTW, have others noticed seemingly reduced re-gen as well, excuse me—for asking if this has already been discussed a lot, I realize
I have a lot more reading to do.

I noticed this and it kept changing with different update since I'd say June (I don't think it was immediately with 16.2).
Currently, with 24.x update it seems to have settled to:
- significantly reduced regen above 50mph at all times
- reduced regen in general when vehicle is hot (where hot means it was either sitting in the sun or been driven in hot weather for a while, so not directly dependent on the outside temp)

This is what I have noticed. Its not very scientific, so maybe these are not the conditions, but I have no doubt about the first one, but the second may not be completely true.
Note that reduce regen = vehicle slows down at much slower rate than prior to particular SW update.

 

[Chaserr]

That was my concern when I first found this thread since I'm saving up for a Model 3. One could view this as a safety issue where the fix is to remotely remove (via software) some "feature" of the vehicle rather than actually fixing it. Is that legal?

Mike

It's illegal, that's why I disagree that this downgrade has anything to do with safety. Tesla has been dishonest many times in the past but they've never been homicidal. Theft, though. That's illegal and is definitely what they've done here.

I noticed this and it kept changing with different update since I'd say June (I don't think it was immediately with 16.2).

Regen has been changes over the years more than a few times. When my car was new it would regen at a little over 80kW but now 60kW is the most it will manage. They never sold this as an actual number so I don't see it as a major problem, unlike the stolen kWh upgrade and performance acceleration that were advertised upgrades I explicitly paid for.

 

[kqnjml]

I have a new Raven X and the rated 90%&100% charge has been dropping since this thread was created. I’ve been testing and trying to recalibrate the battery but my range continues to drop from 305-292 miles from a full charge. Nice to see folks are experiencing the same issue and trying to figure out what Tesla is doing with their updates. Folks on X forum wants us to stop whining and accept the drop is normal. Easy for them to say when they don’t monitor the state of their battery. Anyhow, I will be following this thread closely since more valuable and constructive inputs are posted here.

Thanks

 

[mjmiron]

I have a new Raven X and the rated 90%&100% charge has been dropping since this thread was created. I’ve been testing and trying to recalibrate the battery but my range continues to drop from 305-292 miles from a full charge. Nice to see folks are experiencing the same issue and trying to figure out what Tesla is doing with their updates. Folks on X forum wants us to stop whining and accept the drop is normal. Easy for them to say when they don’t monitor the state of their battery. Anyhow, I will be following this thread closely since more valuable and constructive inputs are posted here.

Thanks

year, mileage and battery please

 

[Droschke]

I have a new Raven X and the rated 90%&100% charge has been dropping since this thread was created. I’ve been testing and trying to recalibrate the battery but my range continues to drop from 305-292 miles from a full charge. Nice to see folks are experiencing the same issue and trying to figure out what Tesla is doing with their updates. Folks on X forum wants us to stop whining and accept the drop is normal. Easy for them to say when they don’t monitor the state of their battery. Anyhow, I will be following this thread closely since more valuable and constructive inputs are posted here.

Thanks

305 RM at full charge to 292 RM at full charge (-4%) on a new Raven X since this thread was created?

 

[kqnjml]

I picked up the X 6/27/19 and rated miles has been dropping every time I charge to 90 or 100%. I'm at 292 Miles at 100% 3 days ago. Tesla has my car in service and running a battery test as of today. Will update here once they provide the report.

 

[kqnjml]

2019 Model X 100DL Raven 3000 miles.

year, mileage and battery please

 

[mjmiron]

2019 Model X 100DL Raven 3000 miles.

The folks affected by this battery capacity reduction like myself seen a 30 mile loss in one day looks like yours was a lot less. This affect is believed to be 2012 -2015 but could be more we are will learning about new folks affected every day.

 

[Droschke]

I picked up the X 6/27/19 and rated miles has been dropping every time I charge to 90 or 100%. I'm at 292 Miles at 100% 3 days ago. Tesla has my car in service and running a battery test as of today. Will update here once they provide the report.

Tesla website says EPA range of 325 miles (for LR). Was your full charge ever near that?

Also, your reported loss appears to be not a sudden drop in range as the topic of this thread is.

On Edit: You already have mentioned your car is 100DL, so the EPA range is 305 instead of 325 I have above. My bad.

 

[kqnjml]

Just throwing my observations out here for folks to take notice of their rates. I hope my 2019 won't have this issues like 2012-1015 down the road.

 

[kqnjml]

Mine is a 100DL Raven so it's rated at 305 full charge. I was able to achieve that range after the 1st charge. It's been declining on a weekly basis. I'm at 292 after less than 2 months of owning the X. It's not a drastic drop but seems like a decent amount in less than 2 months. I'll continue to monitor for any sudden drop.

Tesla website says EPA range of 325 miles. Was your full charge ever near that?

Also, your reported loss appears to be not a sudden drop in range as the topic of this thread is.

 

[Droschke]

Mine is a 100DL Raven so it's rated at 305 full charge. I was able to achieve that range after the 1st charge. It's been declining on a weekly basis. I'm at 292 after less than 2 months of owning the X. It's not a drastic drop but seems like a decent amount in less than 2 months. I'll continue to monitor for any sudden drop.

Thanks for clarification. Let's see what the SC says.

 

[electronblue]

The folks affected by this battery capacity reduction like myself seen a 30 mile loss in one day looks like yours was a lot less. This affect is believed to be 2012 -2015 but could be more we are will learning about new folks affected every day.

Actually it seems to affect Model 3 too:

I talked to a mobile tech this am about the range loss after recent updates, that I was now at 295 miles fully charged. He said that Tesla had reduced full soc to protect battery longevity, but may raise it some due to customer complaints.
He was at our home to replace our steering control module due to a loose right stalk.

M3 Range Loss Date and Mileage Trend

 

[Jlwine]

The folks affected by this battery capacity reduction like myself seen a 30 mile loss in one day looks like yours was a lot less. This affect is believed to be 2012 -2015 but could be more we are will learning about new folks affected every day.

It goes beyond those years I do believe. Mine is a 2016.5 Model S VIN 147xxx 75kWh. I had 250 mile range. Dropped suddenly to 233. After the .31 update I was back up to 240. Or at least that's what it claims.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I am still on the fence as well, hoping they might do the right thing and give back what they stole, but this slow charging REALLY sucks
I should start billing them for the extra charging time at the standard shop rate.

At one time, Tesla's "including potential savings" cost figure for Model S in 2012/2013 included saving of $40/hr spent at a gas station. I would say you are justified! lol

That slider should have been a hard stop at 90. Which, of course, would have read "100%"

Audi was very smart to do this in the e-Tron. Audi customers should see more stable range figures over time, unlike Teslas which apparently lose multiple miles (or tens of miles) within weeks to months of purchase. Tesla wasn't thinking about customer perception when they designed the system. In a couple of years Audi will be lauded as having superior battery tech, just wait for it, when in reality they are simply capping off range from the get-go.

I don’t want to end up on some list where they refuse to service my car or charge for things they previously billed to goodwill. I’m waiting to see whether they do the right thing and “give back” the range that was taken away.

Can Tesla really do that? Can they mark your internal file with a flag that would enable them to provide you with a lower level of service than someone else?

Tesla advertises as much themselves. Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program

Battery Warranty

The battery pack in your car is obviously very important and expensive to replace. In developing the Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.

Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.​

Tesla officially advertised this.

The piece you quoted applies to bricking of the battery, nothing else. It does not apply to this thread.

Start a GoFundMe / Kickstarter? I'll contribute $1000 to that employee's whistle blower protection fund. We're generally a well-to-do demographic, we can probably cobble together a significant motivation for someone at Tesla to do the right thing.

Sounds like bribery to me. Can you imagine the cross in court? lol