I know on an 85 you can easily hit 3 hours of Supercharge time from a low charged battery to 100%.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Guy V
Member
I can only imagine what the cost might be to replace to one of those. Maybe just more cost-effective to buy a Roadster II.
Guy V
Member
But Tesla did say it wasn't a safety issue.
Is it a life threatening safety issue?
Tesla says it isn't any kind of safety issue. I trust wk057 more than them but he's avoiding telling us there's a safety issue as well. So all of the official information we have is "there is no safety issue" and the most reputable unofficial info source we have is hinting that Tesla is lying but carefully not calling them liars either.
Since this is a potentially fatal issue I doubt either would put lives at stake hiding the truth, so it's not a safety issue and thus only a fool would update and knowingly cause damage their car with no known warranty repairs allowed.
The only way to convincingly force people to apply an update that causes functional and financial damage to their cars is to be open about the issue and follow all established legal procedures for safety related notices to owners. So again, we know that (A) it is not a safety issue or (B) the lies are covering up what amounts to homicidal intent to keep us from learning about a safety issue.
In light of recent hints of Tesla actively involved in an ongoing campaign to cover up what is sounding like dangerous defects that should be safety recalled, he would be right in leaving ASAP. He understands the inner workings of these batteries better than everyone, so if his input was ignored in favor of keeping the defects on the road he'd probably feel the need to take some sort of action. I wouldn't want to be at the heart of something like that when the truth gets out. IF there is a safety issue of course. We only have hints to support an assumption that there have been any crimes of that magnitude.
Since this is a potentially fatal issue I doubt either would put lives at stake hiding the truth, so it's not a safety issue and thus only a fool would update and knowingly cause damage their car with no known warranty repairs allowed.
The only way to convincingly force people to apply an update that causes functional and financial damage to their cars is to be open about the issue and follow all established legal procedures for safety related notices to owners. So again, we know that (A) it is not a safety issue or (B) the lies are covering up what amounts to homicidal intent to keep us from learning about a safety issue.
In light of recent hints of Tesla actively involved in an ongoing campaign to cover up what is sounding like dangerous defects that should be safety recalled, he would be right in leaving ASAP. He understands the inner workings of these batteries better than everyone, so if his input was ignored in favor of keeping the defects on the road he'd probably feel the need to take some sort of action. I wouldn't want to be at the heart of something like that when the truth gets out. IF there is a safety issue of course. We only have hints to support an assumption that there have been any crimes of that magnitude.
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This is how things are supposed to work. Tesla is playing with fire (sorry...)
Guy V
Member
Except if that is the case Tesla has a very serious legal obligation to tell us so, when instead they have been denying it.
jaitch
Member
Not at all in defence of Tesla's actions, but to play devils advocate...
If condition X is dangerous and they have deployed software to check for it and found no instance of it in the fleet, only Z...
Do they have to notify anyone of a so far undetected safety concern?
"Chaserr, post: 4002940, member: 65042"]Tesla says it isn't any kind of safety issue. I trust wk057 more than them but he's avoiding telling us there's a safety issue as well. So all of the official information we have is "there is no safety issue" and the most reputable unofficial info source we have is hinting that Tesla is lying but carefully not calling them liars either.
Since this is a potentially fatal issue I doubt either would put lives at stake hiding the truth, so it's not a safety issue and thus only a fool would update and knowingly cause damage their car with no known warranty repairs allowed.
The only way to convincingly force people to apply an update that causes functional and financial damage to their cars is to be open about the issue and follow all established legal procedures for safety related notices to owners. So again, we know that (A) it is not a safety issue or (B) the lies are covering up what amounts to homicidal intent to keep us from learning about a safety issue."
Tesla's claim that this is not a safety issue, may be an answer to the question about, why the cars that have been capped, the cap, thereby eliminating the safety issue. Possibly a technically legal answer. The question of wether the safety issue still exists on cars that have refused the updates, may not have been asked or officially answered.
Since this is a potentially fatal issue I doubt either would put lives at stake hiding the truth, so it's not a safety issue and thus only a fool would update and knowingly cause damage their car with no known warranty repairs allowed.
The only way to convincingly force people to apply an update that causes functional and financial damage to their cars is to be open about the issue and follow all established legal procedures for safety related notices to owners. So again, we know that (A) it is not a safety issue or (B) the lies are covering up what amounts to homicidal intent to keep us from learning about a safety issue."
Tesla's claim that this is not a safety issue, may be an answer to the question about, why the cars that have been capped, the cap, thereby eliminating the safety issue. Possibly a technically legal answer. The question of wether the safety issue still exists on cars that have refused the updates, may not have been asked or officially answered.
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@mvotb It doesn't work like that and it's illegal to claim it's not a safety issue when it is. Updates are OPTIONAL. They're saying there never was any safety issue and t hat the cap is not safety related. They can't apply the workaround to some owners in secret if it has anything to do with a known safety impacting condition - that's why the laws regarding owner notification and recalls exist. Remember too, the update didn't even mention the cap and they denied there was a cap until after the class action suit was filed! According to all Tesla official communications, there isn't and there never was any safety related issue.
They do have to notify us of how they are modifying our vehicles. That requirement isn't reserved only for the case of safety. Most people with earlier Teslas didn't sign a contract to give Tesla the right to spontaneously modify their car or their car's behavior. It's not a gray legal area. They simply haven't enough critical mass of a legal threat for them to care yet. It remains to be seen if this will become large enough. I'm not very imaginative, so it's hard for me to predict how they are going to claim that forcing updates which reduce functionality and fundamentally change behavior without the user's consent is maintenance that keeps the car within warranty.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
with an implied (because you already updated to the latest software didn't you) tossed in silently.
They know that only salvage vehicles and 1 or 2 hold outs like Sorka have the ultra old software. The rest have new enough software to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. So the company line is there isn't an overall safety issue.
No the plaintiff, or his attorney, has still not served Tesla with the summons. (As of last I checked.) So the 21-day clock for Tesla's initial response hasn't started yet.
There is no acceptable level for that risk. If it's an unannounced safety risk the fines cost $billions and the crimes demand criminal charges for the admins that made those decisions.
Especially now, when the official story is "there is no reason for anyone to apply this update, and every reason not to."
They've also created a new condition where large numbers of us will never willingly apply an update ever again no matter what. Fool me twice shame on me: They will need to send me a recall notice stipulating the terms of anything removed and replaced from my car for any reason before I let them have an unsupervised opportunity to steal again.
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Tesla has written that updates are required not optional in the latest warranty agreements. Prior warranties I am not sure..
That doesn't apply to anyone impacted here. It's also illegal for them to try and enforce retroactively changed warranty contract agreements... and very suspicious of them to change it now.
They can also deny warranty simply by blacklisting a VIN if that's true. Tesla has an established and well known updates blacklist that some noted posters in this thread are on. While intentionally creating a no-update situation to deny warranty isn't quite as illegal as the possibility that they are homicidal in trying to suppress safety recalls, it's pretty bad.
They can also deny warranty simply by blacklisting a VIN if that's true. Tesla has an established and well known updates blacklist that some noted posters in this thread are on. While intentionally creating a no-update situation to deny warranty isn't quite as illegal as the possibility that they are homicidal in trying to suppress safety recalls, it's pretty bad.
Actually it does. Anyone that bought a used Model S/X from Tesla since they changed the warranty. (I don't know what date they made that change but I know it was no later than February, 2019.)
For example @mjmiron bought his in May of this year.
Edit: maybe it is more nuanced than that. They have to keep up on software updates to maintain the bumper-2-bumper warranty but maybe they don't have to for the drive-unit/battery warranty. (Since with a used car sale you get a "new" bumper-2-bumper warranty and the remaining orginial drive-unit/battery warranty.)
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