Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Droschke]

Range display does say something about how much energy your battery contains, while % display does not.

How so?

 

[Keshk]

The reduced charge rate at the supercharger affects all older 85 batteries. The voltage cap only a limited number of cars. I don't think the underlying issue is the same.

What makes you think the underlying issues are not the same?
Both the charge rate and the reduced range happened as a result of the same firmware, and both happened at the same time. All the people who complained about one also complained about the other !

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Shanghai Apr 21. San Francisco May 3, Hong Kong May 15, Germany July 30.
Verion 2019.16.1.1 was deployed May 15
SF was a 2015 S 85

Don't forget this one from Los Gatos, CA in late 2018. It caught fire sitting in the parking lot of a tire shop and reignited later at the tow yard.

Tesla Car Catches Fire in Los Gatos, Reignites Hours Later

 

[tga]

ll the people who complained about one also complained about the other !

Absolutely false. All indications are only a subset of 85's have been voltage capped, while most, if not all, 85's have had their supercharger speeds capped.

Everyone we have heard from who has had their 85's voltage capped/range reduced also has their supercharging speeds reduced. The converse is NOT true. There are many people (myself included) whose 85's have reduced supercharging speeds with no impact in range or voltage capping. I can still charge to 4.2V @ 100%.

 

[meomyo]

we

Don't forget this one from Los Gatos, CA in late 2018. It caught fire sitting in the parking lot of a tire shop and reignited later at the tow yard.

Tesla Car Catches Fire in Los Gatos, Reignites Hours Later

re these newest models catching fire?? 75? 100? 85? 90? or older models?

 

[Fleer]

Absolutely false. All indications are only a subset of 85's have been voltage capped, while most, if not all, 85's have had their supercharger speeds capped.

Everyone we have heard from who has had their 85's voltage capped/range reduced also has their supercharging speeds reduced. The converse is NOT true. There are many people (myself included) whose 85's have reduced supercharging speeds with no impact in range or voltage capping. I can still charge to 4.2V @ 100%.

Just confirm what he is saying, my 85D is unaffected by the range reduction but was hit by the supercharge speed reduction. Interestingly enough, my 85D has a P85DL pack. 2/16 build date with ~48k miles.

 

[dhanson865]

That is crazy that people would not know they lost mileage maybe we are just sharper? Or maybe most just use a percentage and not mileage to show the available battery? When I bought my car I researched it for a year about the correct model, range I wanted, and performance on threads like these. I did it because this was such a large investment. I guess if you make millions some don’t care?

Maybe they live in an area with a lot of supercharger locations and never have to drive more than a 100 miles or so on a single leg of a journey? For example if you live in Southern California and never leave Southern California or the northeast corridor (east coast) it'd be hard to notice a drop in range from more than you need (X miles) to less, but still more than you need (Y miles).

Droschke doesn't list where in the future he lives but I'm guessing there are a lot of supercharging locations there.

 

[Keshk]

Absolutely false. All indications are only a subset of 85's have been voltage capped, while most, if not all, 85's have had their supercharger speeds capped.

Everyone we have heard from who has had their 85's voltage capped/range reduced also has their supercharging speeds reduced. The converse is NOT true. There are many people (myself included) whose 85's have reduced supercharging speeds with no impact in range or voltage capping. I can still charge to 4.2V @ 100%.

You said "Everyone we have heard from who has had their 85's voltage capped/range reduced also has their supercharging speeds reduced." No argument here.

The people who have suffered from reduced charge rate, as reported here overwhelmingly, were never able to wait for hours on at a supercharger to reach the full range.

in any case. there is one thing no one can argue about: The reduced charge rate is much more impactful and dreadful than the reduced range. This is by itself can render the car not feasible anymore for the purpose it was originally bought for.

 

[Muffinman]

How so?

Ok, here goes.

Percentage will show the degree of "filling" if you will, but does not take into account the real capacity of the pack. 50% will be 50% wether the pack has 75 or 65 kwh remaining capacity but you will ony see 50% even though the energy remaining would be 37,5kWh or 32,5kWh. Using range display on the other hand combined with the consuption constant for your specific car you will be able to calculate how much energy the pack contains according to the BMS. As far as I have seen that correlates well with nominal full pack reading from canbus.

With percentage display you wil not be able to spot range drop from Vmax capping, but range display will enable you to do that.

 

[tga]

The people who have suffered from reduced charge rate, as reported here overwhelmingly, were never able to wait for hours on at a supercharger to reach the full range.

They can still charge to 100% with AC charging, with little (if any) impact in timing. My supercharging speeds have been reduced, but I can still charge normally on A/C to 4.2V @ 100%.

 

[cpa]

There is a great debate on whether % display or miles display is better in the Instrument Binnacle.

I admire your nautical reference, Ferrycraigs, unless this is standard Scots speak, and this Yankee is unaware!

 

[Keshk]

They can still charge to 100% with AC charging, with little (if any) impact in timing. My supercharging speeds have been reduced, but I can still charge normally on A/C to 4.2V @ 100%.

WE ARE NOT TALKING HERE ABOUT AC CHARGING. WE STRICTLY TALKING ABOUT SUPERCHARGING. YOUR original post is misleading. Re. Supercharging, I do believe that anyone who suffered slower charge rate, also suffered loss of range, AND THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Can You please go back and correct your post?

 

[First EV]

Has anyone else noticed that the last few miles of supercharging before 100% the charge rate is actually slower than at home?

 

[tga]

WE ARE NOT TALKING HERE ABOUT AC CHARGING. WE STRICTLY TALKING ABOUT SUPERCHARGING. YOUR original post is misleading. Re. Supercharging, I do believe that anyone who suffered slower charge rate, also suffered loss of range, AND THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Can You please go back and correct your post?

No, because my post is correct. My supercharging rates have been slowed. My range is unaffected. I have been at 255 miles at 100%/4.2V for over a year. I have been monitoring cell voltages via CAN bus to confirm.

Your assertion that everyone who has slower supercharging also has reduced range is wrong. I have slower supercharging. My battery continues to charge to 4.2V@100%, just as it did when new. My range is not reduced. Q.E.D.

 

[Droschke]

Ok, here goes.

Percentage will show the degree of "filling" if you will, but does not take into account the real capacity of the pack. 50% will be 50% wether the pack has 75 or 65 kwh remaining capacity but you will ony see 50% even though the energy remaining would be 37,5kWh or 32,5kWh. Using range display on the other hand combined with the consuption constant for your specific car you will be able to calculate how much energy the pack contains according to the BMS. As far as I have seen that correlates well with nominal full pack reading from canbus.

With percentage display you wil not be able to spot range drop from Vmax capping, but range display will enable you to do that.

I now see your point. Thanks.

 

[BigNick]

Has anyone else noticed that the last few miles of supercharging before 100% the charge rate is actually slower than at home?

I don’t even bother Supercharging past 80% anymore. 80 to 90 percent probably would take at least 15 minutes, maybe more. I don’t even want to think how slow 90 to 100 percent would be. AC charging might wind up being faster. I timed my most recent session, arrived at 5 miles left, used the heater to get it down to zero then plugged in and let it rip. Battery was over 98F/37C already when I plugged in.

Supercharging kW 0 to 80%
Start/max 128 kW 0:00.00
10% 110 kW 4:12.23
20% 92 kW 4:45.11
30% 78 kW 5:34.74
40% 65 kW 6:36.03
50% 55 kW 7:50.20
60% 47 kW 9:06.00
70% 40 kW 10:46.74
80% 32 kW 12:58.58
Initial estimate: 45 minutes
After 45 minutes: 66%
Total time: 1:01:49.66

I timed all of this while watching the screen using my phone’s stopwatch app so it may not be 100% precise but the times should be accurate to within about 5 seconds or so.

edit: fix “109” typo

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I admire your nautical reference, Ferrycraigs, unless this is standard Scots speak, and this Yankee is unaware!

English and American. Noah Webster has a lot to answer for!

Instrument Binnacle is the correct (English) term for the dash behind the steering wheel.

Steering wheel is the circular rudder in front of the Instrument Binnacle.

The big screen in the middle is, the big screen in the middle.

No need to thank me

 

[Ferrycraigs]

What makes you think the underlying issues are not the same?
Both the charge rate and the reduced range happened as a result of the same firmware, and both happened at the same time. All the people who complained about one also complained about the other !

My research shows capping came from 2019.16.1.1, whereas charge limiting came from 2019.20.4.2. And just to confirm, once again, I suffer from capping but NOT charge limiting (S70)

 

[Droschke]

Recap:

• Some suffer from chargegate but not batterygate
• Some suffer from batterygate but not chargegate
  
• Some suffer from batterygate and chargegate (me)
• Some suffer from condition Z
• Some might suffer from condition X (a taboo subject)
• ...

Did I miss anything?

 

[DJRas]

Ok, here goes.

Percentage will show the degree of "filling" if you will, but does not take into account the real capacity of the pack. 50% will be 50% wether the pack has 75 or 65 kwh remaining capacity but you will ony see 50% even though the energy remaining would be 37,5kWh or 32,5kWh. Using range display on the other hand combined with the consuption constant for your specific car you will be able to calculate how much energy the pack contains according to the BMS. As far as I have seen that correlates well with nominal full pack reading from canbus.

With percentage display you wil not be able to spot range drop from Vmax capping, but range display will enable you to do that.

Actually, SOC in percent tracks directly to the rated range. Rated range DOES NOT vary by how you drive or any other consideration.
SOC percent = Usable Remaining kWh divided by Usable Full Pack.
SOC Rated Range = Usable Remaining kWh dividend by a constant (for all RWD cars that is 0.276)
So, percent work like a 100% to 0% gas gauge. Rated Range works like a higher precision gas gauge in whole miles remaining.

How you drive WILL affect your actual range. This will show up by only getting 7 miles instead of ten if you are a lead foot (ie normal Tesla driver).